Soaring Imaginations: Exploring the Skyriders Series with Polly Holyoke

A podcast interview with Polly Hollyoke on The Growing Readers Podcast, a production of The Children’s Book Review.

Get ready to soar into a captivating conversation with award-winning children’s author Polly Holyoke! In our latest podcast episode, Polly takes us on a magical journey through the world of her enchanting middle-grade fantasy series, Skyriders.

As a passionate advocate for the power of storytelling, Polly shares her insights on how books can ignite young readers’ imaginations and empower them to believe in their ability to make a difference. She offers a fascinating glimpse behind the scenes of her creative process, from building immersive fantasy worlds to crafting characters that resonate deeply with kids.

But Polly’s stories aren’t just about escapism—they’re also infused with meaningful themes like empathy, resilience, and the courage to effect change. She delves into the importance of weaving these powerful messages into her books while never losing sight of the joy and excitement that keep young readers eagerly turning the pages.

Whether you’re a die-hard fan of the Skyriders series, an aspiring writer looking for inspiration, or simply someone who believes in the transformative power of children’s literature, this episode is for you. Join us for an uplifting and thought-provoking conversation with Polly Holyoke, and discover how books can truly change the world, one young reader at a time.

Get ready to be inspired, motivated, and reminded of the magic of storytelling!

Polly Holyoke Talks About:

• Writing exciting books that hook kids and keep them reading to help develop a love of reading and combat the many distractions competing for kids’ attention today
• Balancing the creation of immersive, fantastical worlds with grounding the stories in relatable themes and realistic character development
• Drawing inspiration from myths, history (like the Pony Express), and other fantasy works to build unique worlds, like the flying horses and telepathic bonds in Skyriders
• Crafting animal characters, like the sky horses, who have distinct personalities and meaningful relationships with the human characters
• Depicting difficult issues like grief, loss, and the cost of battles in an age-appropriate way that doesn’t shy away from the realities
• Empowering young characters, especially girls, to have agency, make a difference, and change their world for the better, even when they feel powerless in their daily lives
• Hoping to inspire young readers that they can make a positive impact, just like real kid activists such as Greta Thunberg and local eco groups
• The importance of authors visiting schools to connect with young readers, share their passion, and inspire kids that they too can tell meaningful stories

Listen to the Espiode

Read the Transcript

Bianca Schulze

Hi, Polly. Welcome to the Growing Readers podcast, Bianca.

Polly Holyoke

Thank you so much for having me today.

Bianca Schulze

Oh, my gosh, it’s such a pleasure. I love the fact that both you and I are from Colorado. I also find it so interesting that we haven’t actually crossed paths in person yet.

Polly Holyoke

It’s going to happen. We’ll see each other at an SCBWI conference sometime soon, but yes, it’s lovely to know we’re both skiers.

Bianca Schulze

Yes, absolutely. I know I’m slightly envious that you live in Steamboat, Colorado. When my husband and I talk about places that we would love to live, it’s definitely on the list. So you’re very lucky.

Polly Holyoke

Every morning I look out, even this time of year, when it’s a little brown and the snow is still lingering, I look out that window and I think, I am so glad to be here.

Bianca Schulze

Yeah, that’s so wonderful. Well, let’s start with some questions just to get to know you a little bit. What’s one thing that you do in your day-to-day practices that you think would be either the most surprising or the most relatable to listeners?

Polly Holyoke

Well, I want to talk about writer’s block. I think you probably have a lot of writers listening to your podcast. And so there’s the whole thing when you get stuck. I do write every morning, and some days, it goes really well. Sometimes, the words just flow, and I’m cruising. And then there are those days when, you know, they’re like rocks, pulling those ideas out, and the words aren’t coming. And what I would say to folks is, just don’t keep fighting it. I get up, and I go for a walk. Or actually, sometimes it’s changing the laundry or unloading the dishwasher. But movement, doing something that gets oxygen in your brain, helps you get unstuck.

And I would say another thing you could do – I’m gonna have to pause. That just usually doesn’t happen. I wanted to go because I think this is one of the ones that was – oh, it’s late. Okay, we’re about to go back in. Another thing I tend to do is skip ahead. I think people think they have to write a book in a linear way, and that’s so not true. If you get stuck, skip ahead to the most exciting scene that’s next in your plot, and that might speak to you and that might get you involved. I think that really, really helps.

And I also make a point of writing at the best times of day for me to write. I’m very lucky now that I can do this full-time. I used to be a schoolteacher. That wasn’t so much an option. But if you can protect the best time of day for you to write, you have to be kind of fierce about it when you’re a mom, or you have kids, and you have a job. But for me, that’s definitely the mornings.

I used to know a romance writer who wrote at night. She was like a vampire. She would write from 1:00 until 5:00 in the morning because that was her most productive time. She didn’t have many problems defending that because she didn’t have a husband, and she didn’t have kids. So she could be a vampire and write all night. But I just think that’s really, really important. There are certain times of day when the words flow, and for me, that is definitely morning. So I’m very careful not to schedule appointments or accept obligations as much as I can during that time for me. So go forth and protect your very best writing time.

Bianca Schulze

Yeah, actually, you just touched on a point that I heard in another podcast, and I wish I could actually remember the podcast because I would love to give it a shout-out, but I’m totally blanking. But they were saying how protecting your time, like, if you do have a time that feels good for you to get your writing done, and you call to make your dentist appointment or your annual checkup, and they happen to suggest, you know, the specific day during the time that you normally write, they were saying, don’t take the first appointment that they throw out to you. Protect that time and say, okay, I’ve waited six months for this dental appointment. What’s three more days? So that I can get a time that works for me.

And I thought that’s so smart. I always just take the first one they throw out.

Polly Holyoke

No, I’ve really learned to do that, but it took me a long time. Also, there are all those obligations and things that come along. And whenever you can, push that to the afternoon if you’re a morning writer, or take it in the morning if you’re an afternoon writer. So just figure out your own schedule and the way your brain works. And especially, you know, so many women are children’s authors, and they’re busy. I mean, we just have very, very full loads. So you deserve to be able to write. So, figure out the very best time and most productive time for you to be able to do that.

There was a wonderful author named Rachel Caine who wrote The Great Library series, and she also had a full-time job for a very long time. She would get up at 5:00 in the morning. She was so determined to get that writing time. And she’d write from five until six or 6:30, and then she would do breakfast, and then she would get into her, you know, her regular job mode because a lot of folks are working a full-time job. So, I’m not sure I could have been that dedicated. But whenever I start whimpering a little bit about getting to my computer, I’m not having to do it at 5:00 in the morning. I am so lucky to have the luxury to write in the mornings when I’m ready to do so.

Bianca Schulze

Yeah, I love that. And I also like what you said right up front, that, like, just sometimes going for a walk or just getting up and moving can just make all the wonderful difference. So, yeah, great tips there.

What is it that drives you and guides you in creating books for kids?

Polly Holyoke

Well, first and foremost, I want to write books that get kids reading. I purposely write books that are exciting. I tend to end my chapters on cliffhangers because I want them to turn the page and go to the next chapter. I am very much aware of the competition for books today. It breaks my heart. But there’s no question in my mind. When kids go home after school, they can turn on their iPad, they can turn on the TV, they can turn on a video game, they can go out and play sports with their friends, which is lovely, but those are all not sitting down and reading a book.

And I am one of those believers that reading books makes kids more empathetic, more sensitive, more aware of other people and other people’s experiences. Every time a child reads a book, it’s like they’re trying on another life. They’re walking in somebody else’s shoes. And I think as a society, we definitely need more empathy, and we need kids reading. Another reason I’m pretty fierce about literacy and writing books that make kids read is that my daughters are social workers, and they see some very broken people. And one of my daughters is into criminal justice, and she’s in and out of prisons and jails every day. And she’s always saying, “Mom, keep working on the book thing” because 60% of her clients are functionally illiterate. We have got to get kids reading. We have to keep kids reading.

So I’m going to keep writing really exciting books because I know that they get kids turning pages, and I get these wonderful emails. It was just a couple of weeks ago I got one. Like “Our son, Jamie, always wants to go outside and play basketball, but he sat in a chair for two days and read Skyriders nonstop,” and they were just thrilled, and that thrilled me. I also got one just a week ago, maybe about a girl named Caitlin, I’m thinking. Anyway, the parents said she wasn’t a very strong reader, but she got hooked on Skyriders, and she wanted to read it through dinner at the dinner table. So they let her read Skyriders at the dinner table. It’s a little variation on reading the book under the covers with a flashlight. That’s okay, too, but I just love the idea that there’s some Caitlin out there reading Skyriders at the dinner table.

So I think that I try to write exciting books because I just think it’s so, so important to get our kids reading and keep them reading. And if they read my books as a gateway to reading, they’re going to read other authors’ books. And that’s all good.

Bianca Schulze

Yeah, absolutely. And we’re going to go deeper into your character, Kiesandra from Skyriders, in a minute. But I love that you almost touch on this in Skyriders, that struggling to be able to read is real, and it’s not because kids necessarily don’t want to read. They are just struggling with the ability, and that’s okay; it’s just part of learning for some kids. And I love that you touch on that and make that a conversation.

Another thought that came to my mind when you were speaking was that I just read a quote from Kate DiCamillo, and this is not verbatim in any way, but that, you know, reading should be treated like a gift. Reading is a gift. I remember when my oldest was in first grade, and when some kids were sort of mischievous in the classroom, it wasn’t a timeout they got from the teacher, but they were sent to a corner to read. And I was like, uh oh, like you’re attaching reading to – yeah, as a punishment.

But it’s like Kate DiCamillo said, it’s a gift. And the more that we can, you know, raise awareness with new parents to bring reading as a gift to your family, and the connections that even you get just from bonding over reading together can just go such a long way in letting everybody know that.

Polly Holyoke

I think that’s really lovely to say it that way. There’s just this magical moment – I was a school teacher, so I spent a lot of time in classrooms. And now I’ve been to – I go back to schools as an author. There’s this magical moment when reading can kind of be a chore. And when you have books like Skyriders or my first book, The Neptune Project, that pull kids in and make them turn the pages, sometimes it stops being that chore and something that’s hard, and it turns into the magical adventure that reading is for many of us who are, you know, fluent readers. And so I think that moment is terribly important.

Any way a parent can encourage that – I think some parents still have prejudices against graphic novels. If your kid wants to read a graphic novel and it gets them absorbing words and building their vocabulary, I think graphic novels are wonderful. You know, just let your kid read what they want to read. Make sure you get to the library. Of course, we would want you to buy the book, says an author. But if you can’t afford to buy books, get your kid to the public library. There are so many things that will get them reading and make that transition from reading as an obligation and reading as something that’s a challenge to reading as something that is a joy. It’s truly a joy.

Bianca Schulze

Yeah. And I definitely could see your Skyriders series as a graphic novel as well. So I hope at some point your publisher does that because there’s so much excitement and activity that happens that I think seeing that visually would be great. Hopefully the kids that read the graphic novel that maybe hadn’t approached the novel yet would go on and read the novel version.

Well, I do want to ask, too, since your background is as a social studies teacher and you do school visits; I can just imagine that your school visits are absolutely amazing because you understand the value of and what it takes to present to kids. So talk to me a little bit about that because I feel as though not as many schools are using their, I guess, additional funds that maybe they do raise through PTO to go to school visits. And I feel like the value of an author coming to a school is so huge in helping raise readers and potentially improve their writing skills. So anyway, what are your thoughts on that?

Polly Holyoke

I love going to schools, and I think it’s wonderful. I’ve been to a lot of different states around the country now, and there are some states that have more of the practice or the tradition of inviting authors in and finding the money and the budget to pay for it. And, of course, that is a big problem. A lot of the schools I get invited to, a lot of the Title I schools, are where some passionate librarian has gotten a grant to bring in a writer. And then, you know, in more affluent schools, the PTO can raise money. Sometimes, it’s the librarian who uses her precious book fair money to bring somebody in. But, oh my gosh, there’s no question in my mind. It shows kids that a real person writes books.

I mean, I’m just, you know, this little lady that comes in, and they think, “Who is she?” And I start jumping around. I’m very enthusiastic. It’s like, “Wow, this woman writes books. I could write a book.” I think being able to talk to kids at school visits – it’s talking about a gift. I think it’s truly a privilege. And I have thought long and hard about what I will say to kids in my 45-minute assembly because I feel like I’m addressing the future. They are our future, and what an amazing opportunity. I think most authors get that and understand that and try to make the most of their time.

So I do understand. I’ve got kids who are never going to become writers, but I do an assembly that really promotes creativity. So my big messages are, you know, kids need to read more. They need to write more about things that they care about and that they’re passionate about. I urge them very strongly to unplug from the gadgets, and I make that funny. We talk about all the things that they like to plug into. There are things I like to plug into, and I know these kids are sometimes plugged into, like, four things at once. Maybe they’re doing their homework, but it’s very hard to be plugged into all those things and be creative.

Whether they want to be scientists or mathematicians someday, they need to know how to daydream to let their minds drift because that’s when new ideas pop into their heads. And I think that we just schedule kids, schedule, schedule, schedule, and we reprimand them. I was a classroom teacher, and you’ve got that one kid who’s daydreaming and looking out the window. Well, what you have to do is learn when is the right time to daydream.

Probably most of the time it’s not the right time in school. The best time to daydream would be in a place like the car. It breaks my heart to see kids watching videos and movies in the car. That’s prime daydreaming time when new ideas will come to them. And again, maybe it’s not for writing, although, gosh, we’re always going to need storytellers.

That’s another thing. I go to schools and say, “Look, there are chatbots out there that are creating all sorts of things, but I don’t think chatbots are going to replace fiction. I don’t think chatbots are ever going to make us cry and laugh the way really good fiction does.” So we are going to need people to write the movies and write television, even reality TV, which is really very scripted, by the way. I keep telling my daughters who watch The Bachelor, “You know, that is all scripted.”

You know, we just – we’re going to need books. I don’t know what form books will end up in, but we’re going to need kids, people, to grow up to write those things. So that’s part of my message in schools and I think it really does make an impact. I show them – there’s a story called Just Jake, which I don’t have to hand right now, but it was written by a twelve-year-old boy. They actually do buy books from kids now.

And somebody like Veronica Roth of Divergent, who was 18 or 19, or the author of The Outsiders, S.E. Hinton, was 16. So I’d like to show them that they do sometimes buy books from younger writers. That sort of inspires them. And I think I made it clear what fun I have writing books. And I know after I visit a school, there are all sorts of people writing books. And I get lots of nice emails afterward that, you know, “Little so-and-so is writing a book,” or I’ll have kids come up and say, “I’m going to write a book with my best friend.” And that just truly, truly, truly makes my heart warm. It’s joyful news.

Bianca Schulze

Yeah. It’s the passion behind the learning. And when you can light that fire, the learning just comes naturally. It’s like finding the passion and igniting it. So that’s why I love when authors come and visit schools because you just see those little fires get lit that maybe just are kindling in their regular day-to-day, and then suddenly an extra guest comes in, and then that – it just ignites. So I love that.

Polly Holyoke

And there’s – actually, one last little story I meant to say about that. Because, again, I’m a big fan of daydreaming. I was at a school in Hawaii, and I’d done my assembly and talked to everybody. And at the very end, this young man, who was a young teacher, came out of the AV booth, and he came up to me, and he was crying. He was literally crying. And he said, “I so wish somebody could have told my parents that it’s okay to daydream, that daydreaming is important.” And, you know, he’d been to so many faculty meetings, so many meetings with teachers, and because he’s probably an ADHD kid and people just didn’t understand.

But I hope that going forward, we understand that some kids can’t concentrate the way everybody else concentrates or is supposed to concentrate. We need to reward and find ways to make it okay to be one of those daydreaming kids and realize that, in some ways, they’re the kids who are probably going to change the world down the road.

Bianca Schulze

I agree.

Well, they say you need to be a reader first to be a writer. Do you agree with that? And if so, was there a pivotal moment in which you considered yourself a reader?

Polly Holyoke

You know, I don’t think you need to start as a reader. I’ve talked to some people that really found books, you know, in their teen years or in their twenties, they found reading harder. By the way, I’m a big fan of audiobooks, you know, books on tape – that dates me. But yes, that’s okay.

Bianca Schulze

I had books on tape, too, so we’re both dated here.

Polly Holyoke

You know, I think that really does get kids reading. But the moment, it’s very clear in my mind when I went from being kind of a – I liked reading, but the time I really became a serious reader was in 7th grade. So, coming up to 7th grade, I definitely read. My grandma read to me, my parents read to me. So there were books in my house. I was very lucky to have that, but my mom felt like I was reading too much. And so, in 7th grade, she finally helped me get a horse. I was a horse-crazy person, which wouldn’t surprise you after you read Skyriders. And I was so excited about that horse. But I wasn’t a terribly good rider, so I’d only had Lark for about six weeks and I fell off and I broke my arm.

And the funny thing about that is at school, when you are damaged, and you have a broken limb during PE, during gym time, you know where they send you – they sent you to the library. And so there I had all that extra time. I had an extra hour every day to read. And my 7th grade teacher, Mrs. Gorham, had this list of 20 books she wanted us to choose three or four from, and they were really quite, you know, challenging books. Looking back at things like The Count of Monte Cristo and The Bridges at Toko-Ri, I mean, there were, you know, these war books and submarine books, Run Silent, Run Deep, stuff I never would have gotten into.

But I just decided, you know, I get these ideas, and I’m going to read all of them. And I had the time to do it, thanks to my broken arm. And that’s when I think I really became a reader. And I started reading things outside of horse books and, you know, fantasy books. So thank you, Mrs. Gorham. And after that, yes, I do think it helps, it certainly helps to become – helps your writing if you’re a reader. And eventually I think there’s a really strong pairing. But I do think there’s time to become a reader in your life. It doesn’t have to be – it’s lovely if it happens in elementary school, but it can happen later in life, too.

Bianca Schulze

Yeah, that’s wonderful. Well, a lot of writers receive the tip to write about what they know, so I want to know what your thoughts are about that. The reason I’m asking you is because you write fantasy, which comes from one’s imagination and often reaches well beyond what we actually know. So, what are your thoughts about writing about what you know?

Polly Holyoke

Well, first, I would say you definitely want to write what you love to read. And I would say that’s really, really what I do. I definitely love fantasy and science fiction, but I love stories about kids who were shy and wanted, you know, ended up making a huge difference. So that’s just one hint.

So writing what you don’t know. Well, what I really love is the first series that I wrote for Disney Hyperion. The first book was called The Neptune Project, and that was just a book that really, on appearances and from the outside, looks like I never should have written that book because “write what you know.” These kids are genetically engineered to live in the sea. I’ve never been genetically engineered. I never had to live in the sea. I was a social studies teacher, and somehow, I dodged high school biology, and here I wrote a book that was full of genetic engineering.

Actually, proud moments – there was a library coordinator in Austin who thought I was a marine biologist because I did the fish so well, all these different species in The Neptune Project. And then the American Association for the Advancement of Science, the AAAS folks, endorsed The Neptune Project as a great science-based read for kids.

Bianca Schulze

That’s amazing.

Polly Holyoke

One of the proudest moments of my life because, boy, I thought I was faking it. But no, if you do your research, you can write what you don’t know. Certainly you have to be able to write characters that you relate to. And I write these shy girls because I was a shy kid, always had friends, but I was a shy kid that, you know, found my voice. Kie in Skyriders is a shy girl with dyslexia. And here she is on the front here. She’s from kind of a downtrodden race in this empire, and yet she’s entrusted – her job is really to try to get people in power to listen to her because she’s one of the few people who know how to fight these terrible Chimera creatures that have come back to ravage and endanger her empire, her country. And that’s a lot of pressure on a 13-year-old girl to have to go speak truth to power and convince the generals in the sky force to listen to her.

So I do like to kind of set up that kind of theme in stories where kids have to make a difference, but “write what I know” – I have never ridden a flying horse. One of the funniest things about – I know, I really appreciate having some props here. I obviously Zoom with kids a lot, but I had to figure out a whole different kind of combat because how would somebody on a flying horse be able to fight something with, you know, that flies and has three heads? Because this is a Chimera. And so I just really had fun doing this.

My husband was walking by my office one day. It’s like, “What are you doing?” Well, I get to play with, you know, plastic toys. But I did figure out a whole different way to fight, and that these sky fighters would have to be able to immobilize the sky steed, so they would – the Chimera, so they’d have this kind of a tri-wire gadget, this three – this very sharp thing. So I made up a weapon, and then Brandon Dorman put it on the cover of the book. How cool is that?

I also had to research sky-fighting tactics, really, from dogfighting tactics. And so you will see that Kie always kind of approaches the Chimera from above with the sun in the Chimera’s eyes so she can surprise the heads. So, did I know a whole lot about aerial combat before I wrote this book? No. Did I know much about genetic engineering before I wrote the Neptune books? No. So you can write what you don’t know, but you have to compensate by doing research and using your imagination and then making enough of it real. In fact, it is so real that kids will believe it. Kids are tough audiences, and if you break your trust with them and you write something that they don’t believe, they’re going to stop reading. But, yes, I definitely have never been genetically engineered and I’ve never ridden a flying horse, but I sure had fun writing both those series.

Bianca Schulze

Yeah, that’s awesome. And I love what you said right up front, that, you know, at the very least, you have to have the passion for what you’re writing, because I think if you didn’t have that passion, the researching wouldn’t be so fun, and you wouldn’t dive so deep into getting it, you know, so believable. And when I read your writing, I – you know, I love that you told me that you were a horse lover because I was like, Polly has to be a horse lover, even though these sky steeds are up in the air and they have wings. Just the way you describe the relationship between the humans and the sky steeds – it’s like, she gets this. So, you know, I guess it’s that element of blending in what you do know, what you’re passionate about, and then researching the heck out of, you know, everything else to make it so believable. And I think you did that so beautifully.

Polly Holyoke

Well, thank you. Thank you very much. I had a lot of fun doing it. Again, for the writers who might be listening to this, there was a point – I love historicals. They are very hard to sell. My background is history. So, I keep writing things set on the frontier. One of these days, I’m going to sell them. But one I had set in an old-time circus, and I had an editor from a big house, a very famous editor, in a critique session at our conference. And she said, “Oh, this is a great story. You write beautifully, but we really can’t sell historicals. You should put a vampire in this or some paranormal element.”

And I’m just looking at her, and, I mean, that’s not advice I took because I don’t like vampires. I mean, I had fun reading Twilight, but that’s not – that’s not a story that appeals to me in some really fundamental ways. And so don’t put a vampire in your story if you don’t like vampires. It’s not going to go well, so don’t chase the fad, baby. I just always thought that it was really funny that she told me to put a vampire in it. Like, that doesn’t work. Gotta write – you got to write the kind of stuff that you loved to read when you were twelve or 13 if that’s the age that you were writing for. If you are writing for young adults, write the kind of book you wanted to read when you were 15 or 16. That’s going to go a lot better for you.

Bianca Schulze

Yeah, I think as well, like, there’s also a lot of feedback out there about writing for the market. Like writing what the market wants. But I feel like you can tell when a book has been written to sort of have a topic that you think everybody’s into right now. And it doesn’t ever sit with the reader quite as well. When it’s something just purely written for the market, it does – it has to come from the writer’s heart. And those are the stories that really shine.

Polly Holyoke

And you might just invent a new genre while you’re at it. It just may not be something that’s out there, but boy, we might need that new genre. So, yes, don’t let that hold you back.

Bianca Schulze

All right, well, let’s dive deeper into Skyriders. So, what inspired you to write this fantasy adventure series?

Polly Holyoke

There were two things that kind of came together. I think that creativity comes when you mash two totally different ideas, and something new comes out of it. And so, in this case, I’d always loved the Pegasus myth. I had a picture book of Bellerophon and Pegasus that I just loved. It was actually – the story was told by Nathaniel Hawthorne, but it was illustrated with beautiful watercolors, and that always stuck with me. I just loved the idea of having a flying horse.

And then I also taught Colorado history and western history for years. And I think that the American Pony Express is this fascinating snippet of history. And it only went for 18 months. But we had this terrible problem getting the mail from St. Louis to San Francisco in the 1860s. There was no train, there was no telegraph, so the mail had to go all the way around South America. So, it took three months to get letters from DC to San Francisco. So these businessmen got together and said, “Okay, there’s got to be a better way to do this. We’re going to hire some young riders. We’re going to have them ride day and night and change off and hand the mail off like a relay baton. And they’re going to ride across the interior of the country.”

And they cut that time down to eleven days by these young men riding day and night. It was amazing. Also very dangerous because they were riding horses through Native American territory. Can you imagine how that went? And so they asked for orphans – which, by the way, never apply for a job that’s asking for orphans. It may be an indication that it’s rather dangerous. So I don’t know, I’ve always been intrigued by that, and suddenly it just sort of – like, oh, I want to do something with flying horses. I thought, what if they were kind of operating like the Pony Express across a vast empire, and the riders have to be young and very light for flying horses to be able to carry them?

And I was like, oh, this is kind of a cool idea. So, two totally different ideas are coming together. And then I also really like the idea of kids having responsibility. A lot of kids today in America, they are looking after little brothers and sisters, they are cooking, they are making things work. Kids have had – it’s a kind of Victorian concept that we have perfect childhoods. Kids have worked, and around the world, they work.

So I like the idea of having kids having responsibility, and then ultimately, these kids, when these terrible Chimera creatures return – which is what Pegasus and Bellerophon fought in the original Greek myth, it’s a terrible three-headed monster with the head of a lion, the head of a goat, and the head of a serpent – I thought, okay, so the conflict is going to be these terrible creatures are going to come back and we’re going to see these kids can really make a difference, and these kids can save the day, kids that are originally delivering the mail, but they’re really the answer. And I do like the idea, again, of telling kids they can have agency and that they can make change. And so that’s always going to be a theme in my books.

Bianca Schulze

Yeah, it’s a good theme to have. So I think when I was reading Skyriders, I was over and over thinking, this is such incredible world-building. It felt just very real. Now, knowing your inspiration behind it, it feels even more visual to me. So why don’t you walk us through how you develop such a fantastical world and all the different characters that came into it? I mean, because there are a lot of characters, but yet – I’m thinking of Lord of the Rings, for example, where it’s almost impossible at some points to be like, okay, wait, who’s this? Where are they from? And I always had to go back to the map to track it. I was able to track all the way through your story. And so I felt like you did such an incredible job of just bringing this world together and all of these amazing characters. So how do you do it?

Polly Holyoke

Well, I’m so glad you asked, as this is a class I end up teaching quite often. Because I’ve thought about world-building. If you’re going to do it, it looks effortless, but you can bet a person who does it well, an author who does it well, has really spent some time before they ever start writing. And so you have to go back to the basics. You have to think about it – is it a fantasy world? Is magic going to be an important part of this world? Is it going to be high magic? Is there going to be lots of magic? You would say that Skyriders is kind of low magic. I wanted to make it a lot more about the kids’ courage and their resourcefulness rather than the depths of magic that they possess. And so there’s a little bit of magic that makes it possible for sky steeds and humans to understand each other. But otherwise, it’s a fairly low-magic world. But I thought about that before I started.

Do you have extra moons? Where does your planet sit in its solar system? And so that’s kind of fun. But if you have two moons, with two moons come great responsibility. If you have two moons and they line up, what is that going to do to your oceans? You’re going to have tremendous tides, so they’re going to be 200-foot tides. And then you work that into your story. You have to think about the geography, what is the land like, and how does that impact how people live? And so in the center part of Prokolte, it’s flat, and it’s warm, and there’s good soil. So, of course, that’s the richest part of the empire, and that’s very agricultural. Whereas my heroine Kie lives on the foothills on the edge of a mountain range where the land is not so good. What you can do is you can grow things. So she grows apples and that – she’s very proud of that. But I kind of thought about where she would live.

And then you think about the cultures. Are there different cultures? Certainly, anytime you can create conflict, that is a good thing. And so you think about, you know, maybe the values or the power of the people in the center of your empire versus the people on the outskirts, the people of the haves versus the have-nots.

Religion is a tricky one. I think that if it were to be accurate, there would be religion. So my Kie does pray to the Messenger. Usually, all societies have religion, but it can be a minefield today. And for your writer folk out there, look at something like Harry Potter – it’s very secular. You could argue the last book has some interesting similarities to Christianity, but mostly, it’s a very secular book. And look at something like The Hunger Games – also, Katniss never says, “Oh, God, please help save me from this terrible fight that I’m having.” You know, so it’s not – you can write books that are totally secular, but you have to think about that and make a choice.

You have to think about language. So, yes, there are lots of things that kind of go into the equation before you start writing, but you also want to make sure it doesn’t hit you over the head. I was just at a writer’s group yesterday, a really lovely young writer who has got a great world, but she spent the first five pages of her novel describing the world. There weren’t characters. You didn’t know what they cared about. You didn’t know what they were trying to achieve. And so the rules of fiction, you just can’t forget them. I think that that can be a little bit of a problem for those of us who write fantasy and science fiction. Sometimes, the characters get lost a little bit because you’re having so much fun with world-building that you forget what’s at stake in the novel, in the character development. So I actually do really try and start with characters, and I go back to that really basic, you know, what do they want versus what do they need, and what are they going to find out in the course of the story? And then, you know, how does their character change?

So all the things you should really think about in contemporary fiction, you still really, really need to do well if you’re going to write the kind of fantasy that sticks with you or the kind of science fiction novel that sticks with you. Your character needs to grow and change, just as in any other kind of novel. I could also argue that anytime you sit down to write fiction, you are doing world-building. You are creating a world for your reader. And so I’m in awe of people that can create a contemporary world, you know, the characters and the relationships. It’s really beautiful. Karen Harrington is an author that I think not enough people talk about. And she just creates these worlds from day one where you understand the characters, you see their interrelationships. So world building is a part of every novel. It’s just a little more obvious or a little more out there when you’re doing fantasy and science fiction.

Bianca Schulze

Yes. And what you just said before about somebody that you were in a workshop with and how there was this amazing world that spent the first five pages maybe describing the world. Here’s what I think you do really well, which is when everybody says when you’re writing, you need to show and not tell. And I just love the way you’re able to keep the story going. So readers are turning the pages, and you’re learning about the character and the setting all at the same time. It’s not just like, okay, how can we tell the story and let everybody know where this is taking place? It has to all happen at once and just belong and not just be superfluous. And I think you do an amazing job of that.

Polly Holyoke

Well, thank you very much. I think a good rule of thumb that I teach in my writing workshop is – to write your first paragraph of new science fiction or a new fantasy novel, and you are only allowed to put in one world-building detail that tells the reader you’re not in 2024. Because what everybody wants to do is, you know, pile on those details, and it gets overwhelming.

And again, go back to the people who are really, really good at this. You know, go back to Tolkien as the granddaddy of us all. You don’t really need to make up Elvish. You don’t need to make up your own language, and you don’t need to know – oh my gosh, he’s got the, you know, the geology of Aragorn, and he has a separate calendar for the Shire. Who knew the hobbits had their own calendar? You know, that’s – that can be the rabbit hole. You have to be careful. You can spend so much time on that that you don’t tell the story, but you do need to be convincing, but not too much all at once.

So thank you. I’m so glad you like that because it’s – yeah, I really tried to sort of slowly, like, one little detail might sneak in there in a paragraph. Don’t hit your reader over the head with it.

Bianca Schulze

Yes. Well, fantasy novels can contain some really valuable messages for kids. So, I love the idea that you get across very clearly that kids can make a difference. So, how do you balance creating a fantastical world with incorporating realistic themes, such as grief and loss and the cost of battles?

Polly Holyoke

I knew that in The Sky King, that’s really, really something I wanted to get into. It bothers me when I read a fantasy novel, and I think you go back to something iconic like The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe. There’s Susan and Lucy directing battles, and animals die. And yeah, they’re sad for about a paragraph, and then they just go skating on. And that is so not real. And so what I did try to do with Skyriders is to show there’s a cost.

And, you know, basically, my heroine Kie has to recruit, and she communicates – she’s the Nexarra, so she can talk to all these sky steeds. And then the next thing you know, she’s helping a young prince direct a battle and she’s connected to these sky steeds that are getting wounded and getting hurt. And I’m just thinking, oh my gosh, this would put me in therapy for the next 20 years. Or, in my Neptune books, actually, that was kind of the same thing they had. These people fight, and terrible things happen, and there’s a cost, and I don’t think we’re doing kids any services by brushing that over.

In fact, I think fantasy and science fiction can address issues like loss in some very helpful ways. It’s just a little bit different from the way you do it in contemporary realistic fiction. So yes, I have thought about that and I try to make there be real things and real issues.

In the first book, Kie is very, very shy. And I love the fact her sky steed is always telling her that she needs to have a herd of her own because that’s his reality. Horses are very herd-oriented. They’re only happiest when there’s a whole bunch of them together. So he can’t understand his loner partner, and so he’s always urging her to trust more. And there are reasons that she is not trusting and there are reasons why she’s a loner. But in the course of the book, she starts learning to trust.

She doesn’t want to tell people she’s dyslexic, and that has a cost in the course of the story. And by the end, she has trusted her new friend with some very personal things about her. And in The Sky King, it’s more that she’s trying to hide her grief because there’s a big battle at the end of book one, and she’s living with that grief and those memories in book two. And I think you’d asked me if there was a quote, and I just love this quote. I sort of forgot that I wrote this. I don’t know if other writers have this moment, but sometimes you can be surprised by your own writing. Mostly, we don’t want to go back and read our books. We’re just horrified by all the things we’d like to change.

But you asked me if there was actually a passage that I liked, and so I found this. It was like, I don’t know who actually wrote this. I mean, The Sky King is so profound here. I don’t think of myself as being a profound person, but I was very proud of this. So there’s been this tough battle against the Voltaireans in book two. Kie is still burdened from the battle in the first book. And so the first thing she does is she goes off by herself to cry. She even sends away her beloved sky steed and the sky king, who’s actually kind of an intimidating character to her, but he’s also very caring. He finds her. And so this is what he says to her:

“Grief and pain are not emotions to be borne by oneself. They’re emotions to be shared with your herd. Grief shared is a grief that heals more cleanly, but a grief that you dwell on and keep to yourself can fester and turn bitter.”

I don’t know who wrote that, but anyway, I think it’s really, it’s really profound and it’s a good message for her. And he’s speaking from his own experience because he had had a sky rider that he was bonded with and that young man died. And he is very angry and bitter with humans, partly because of his grief and partly because he thinks sky steeds are not being treated fairly by humans anymore. But he gives really good advice. And so after that, Kie stops grieving by herself, and she goes and shares her grief with her sky steed. And then they have sort of these moments of sharing, talking about the sky steed who died, and as a herd, they share those things.

So anyway, that was kind of the learning moment. So I love the fact that you know, the reviews of the book sound a little sobering because it’s a superbly paced book, but it also shows the cost of loss. It’s really not all a downer. But anyway, yes, I’m very proud of the fact that you can tackle some tough issues in fantasy and science fiction.

Bianca Schulze

The bond between Kiesandra and her winged horse, N’Rah, is central to the story. So, how did you approach developing this unique connection that they have? And what do you think it adds to the narrative?

Polly Holyoke

I think a lot of kids need to believe that they have a special friend, somebody who accepts them, who knows them and loves them with all their faults and all their warts. And so you see this, and there are so many animal-kid books where the dog, particularly the dogs, it’s because dogs are so loving. You know, it’s – I don’t know that it’s a trope. It’s just something that works right. And so Pax is a lovely, more recent novel that, you know, really shows the love a boy could have for a fox. And I think kids need this kind of love. They need to believe that it exists, even if they don’t have it. I think that’s why lots of kids have pets. Even if they just adore their gerbil, they adore their snake – who, you know, the whole reptile thing, I’m not feeling that there’s a lot of love coming back from reptiles, but for some kids, they believe that that’s there. So I really wanted Kie to have kind of this animal familiar or this animal partner a little bit based on, you know, Philip Pullman and The Golden Compass. He has those creatures that are very linked to their – the kids have these animals that are like their spirit friends.

In this case, I wanted to make sure that N’Rah was very different from Kie and complimented her, in part because that would lead to conflict, which is the engine that drives the story. But it also just kind of brought out – they complement each other. So N’Rah is a very outgoing, very happy, well-adjusted young sky steed. And Kie, because she had dyslexia, had a terrible time in school, and people at her school didn’t understand that it was so hard for her to read. And so the kids were mean to her and bullied her, and school was just a miserable experience. So she doesn’t trust people. And so to have this loner with this very gregarious boy sky steed – but they do complement each other, and they grow closer as the series goes on.

But in the second book, I wanted to make sure, actually, that there was some conflict between them. It’s been such a strong relationship in the first book, but Kie doesn’t really listen to N’Rah the way she should in the second book. And there are some questions about sky steed autonomy. They really become more like property. And originally, at the beginning of the Great Alliance, they were equals. And so Kie really, in general, becomes a speaker and a protector of sky steeds.

But then in her relationship with her own sky steed, she’s a little blind. And so in the course of the second book, we explore some conflict in this very fundamental relationship in her life. So, again, you can’t make it all perfect or there’s nothing going on there. And that’s something else I have not seen in these books that have really tight partnerships between the animal and the human – when they get a little bit at odds with each other. So I had fun with that in this book.

Bianca Schulze

Skyriders has been compared to other fantasy series, like the really popular Wings of Fire. So, what were some of your inspirations for this series, and how did they shape your storytelling? And I can tell that you are so well-read because of all of the references to the different books that you’ve been talking about, you know, from The Golden Compass to The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe and The Hunger Games. So I’m just really curious about what books have helped shape your storytelling for this story.

Polly Holyoke

I would say going back to The Golden Compass is number one, but I think another series, and it’s just lovely and people are forgetting about, are Anne McCaffrey’s dragon books. And there’s a bonding that takes place there where the dragons accept the kids. And the children’s version of this is called – I’m not going to remember right now, but it’s McCaffrey’s story. Harper Hall, I think, might be one of them. I’ve got it on my bookshelf. Anyway, in those books, there’s a very – the kids are quite young when they may be twelve or 13, sometimes 14 or 15 when they are presented to dragons, and the two have a telepathic link. I do like the idea that they can speak to each other.

Certainly writing dialogue is so much more fun when you could do that. I would say actually the original origin because in my Neptune books, I also had telepathic dolphins, and the dolphins became these incredibly snarky, fun characters in the story. I think this all goes back to Doctor Dolittle – dates me because nobody reads Doctor Dolittle. But I have to say, if you have a kid who loves animals, those first couple of Doctor Dolittle books are so much fun. And the different animals have their own personalities. And young boy Jim, who’s learning how to speak to the animals – there were years after I read those books that I’d look at my dog and see if I could read what it was saying from the way it put its ears, the way it barked and so forth.

So I would say the original – I seem to keep returning to talking animals. And I think that really goes back to Doctor Dolittle. But more recently, I would say the McCaffrey books do this wonderful job of portraying an animal that’s sentient, accepts its partner, loves its partner, and helps its partner. And then, you know, that turns into my sky steeds, who are also very loving and very supportive, but they also have different personalities. And so, you know, by the end, I hope you liked Missila and the princess. The princess is a little vain and flighty, and her sky steed actually is a little vain and flighty. And so the way they look at things is very similar. It’s just really fun to do that with talking animals, whether they’re talking telepathically or they’re talking out loud. To write them and have them be characters in the book certainly adds a lot to the story.

Here’s the thing, though – the problem is for the poor people who have to perform these books because there is an audio version of Skyriders. I’m very excited that there’s one for this and there’s also one for The Sky King. And that lovely Emily Woo Zeller is the name of the lady that we chose to perform, the voice artist. She is fabulous. But can you imagine trying to voice N’Rah? And then all the sky steeds all have different voices, and then all these characters have different voices. You think about the cast of characters that, you know, Tolkien had by the second book. In The Sky King, there is a list of characters because I was thinking, oh my gosh, I think kids are really going to get lost here, so we need to give them a little bit of help.

One funny note is I was going to have all the horse sounds, all the sky steed’s names sound like horse sounds. So N’Rah started like a whinny or like a neigh. That’s very much a horse sound. But I ran out of alphabet quite quickly and my editor was saying they can’t all make the same sound because kids will get confused on the page. And you always do have to think about that. So horses do not make the “s” sound. And there is a horse called Nissila. So it was like a really good idea, but I had to abandon that one for some practicalities that came along. You do need to write a book that kids can read and write names that kids can pronounce.

Bianca Schulze

Yeah, exactly. Or at least just phonetically say it, and everybody can say it differently. And that’s totally fine. But yeah, you have to be able to at least sound it out, right?

Polly Holyoke

Yes. And not get confused. If you had too many of the same letters, that will trip up readers. So can’t do that.

Bianca Schulze

All right, so I love to ask, when readers are done reading these books, what is your hope that they will take away from it? And I feel like you’re going to say it’s the dedication to showing kids that they can make a difference because I feel like that is such an admirable aspect of these stories, but I don’t want to put the words in your mouth. So, Polly, what do you hope that readers will take away from reading the Skyriders series?

Polly Holyoke

I hope that kids take from Skyriders the fact that they have power. It makes me so sad to go into schools and see 4th, 5th, and 6th, even 7th and 8th graders all day long. They are told by adults what to do – by teachers. They are told to go to PE. They are told to go to this class and that class. They’re told to get their pencils out. They’re told to get their homework in on time, and then they get home, and guess what? Their parents take that over. Their parents are telling them that they have to get their homework done, they need to wash the dishes, and they need to do this and that. So, kids, it’s just, you know, it’s a fact of life. They don’t have a lot of power over their lives. They don’t have a ton of say sometimes. And of course, that changes a bit from family to family. But I love to write books where kids are given that chance to make a difference. I want them to believe that they can change the world.

I’m definitely an idealist. I’m one of those people who believe people can make a difference. And, oh my gosh, both my kids turned out to be social workers, and they’re out there making a difference, you know, one life at a time. So I do try to give kids agency. I do try to show kids can change the world, whether it’s a fantasy world in the Skyriders. There’s a girl who really is the only one who knows how to fight Chimera, and she has to convince people in power to listen to her. And if she doesn’t, her world is doomed. And in the end, she’s successful. And one of the ways she’s successful is she builds consensus. She builds a group that helps her.

In my Neptune books, much the same thing. The world, you know, climate change is out of control, and it’s a shy girl that gets a group together, and they first have to survive, and then they save us from climate change.

So I am just thrilled when I hear about kids who do make a difference and they get that message. Even if they don’t have a lot of power in their lives, they see there are issues that they can tackle, and they can make a difference. And so, obviously, Greta Thunberg is the most visible face of the eco-movement. And these eco-activists, these young kids that are out there saying, “This is wrong. This is our future. We have got to get our fossil fuel emissions under control. What are you going to do about it? Your generation that’s really messed up this planet and left it for these kids to deal with” – she’s the most obvious example.

But I just love hearing about kids on a local level that are changing the world. I just heard on our Colorado Public Radio yesterday about a group of kids down in Denver who are in an ecology club of sorts, and they are very worried about how the district is spending money on fuel and energy. And that’s one of the biggest costs for the district. And certainly, the greatest part of their carbon footprint is the emissions they’re giving out. So they’re looking at heat pumps. These kids have helped convince the school district to replace the heating units in several of these older schools with heat pumps that are maybe more expensive upfront but, over the long term, are going to be so much better for the environment. And in fact, the school district has already approved, I think 24 schools are going to go to heat pumps. And now the kids are advocating for the last eight to be changed over. These kids have actually been at school board meetings, and some of them are quite young, like twelve and 13-year-olds, going and speaking passionately to these adults about these issues.

It just lights me up to think that there are kids out there making a difference. And if, through books, I can write a book that shows kids that, yes, even at age twelve or 13, you can have a say. You can talk to adults; you can get adults to listen to you. Kids are very wise. Kids have a lot to offer us. And so maybe some of the parents will read these books and realize that as well. That would even be better.

Bianca Schulze

That’s amazing. Well, as we wrap up, Polly, I would love to leave our listeners with this thought. For me, Polly’s unwavering commitment to inspiring children through her stories, particularly in the Skyriders series, highlights this belief that kids have the power to shape the world around them. I think Polly exemplifies how creativity, empathy, and imagination can serve as a catalyst for meaningful change. So whether you’re a young reader dreaming of soaring through the skies on the back of a winged horse or an adult striving to make a positive impact, remember that each of us holds the ability to weave magic and touch hearts through storytelling, just as Polly does. Thank you, Polly, for generously sharing your insights and igniting our imaginations today.

Polly Holyoke

Thank you, Bianca. This was really a ton of fun, and it has inspired me to go off and write the next chapter of a new adventure. So thank you. Yay!

Show Notes

Thank you for listening to the Growing Readers Podcast episode Soaring Imaginations: Exploring the Skyriders Series with Polly Holyoke. For the latest episodes from The Growing Readers Podcast, Subscribe or Follow Now.