Doors to Other Worlds: Kate DiCamillo Explores Connection Through Storytelling

A podcast interview with Kate DiCamillo discussing Orris and Timble: The Beginning and The Norendy Tales: The Hotel Balzaar on The Growing Readers Podcast, a production of The Children’s Book Review.

Dive into the enchanting world of Kate DiCamillo in this heartwarming episode of The Growing Readers Podcast.

Host Bianca Schulze and the beloved author explore DiCamillo’s latest works, including Orris and Timble: The Beginning and The Hotel Balzaar. Discover the magic behind DiCamillo’s storytelling as she reveals her creative process, inspirations, and the themes that make her books resonate with readers of all ages. From the craft of writing to the power of imperfection, this conversation offers a treasure trove of insights for book lovers, aspiring authors, and anyone who believes in the transformative power of stories.

Join us for a journey through the luminous landscape of children’s literature with one of its brightest stars.

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Bianca Schulze: Hi, Kate DiCamillo. Welcome back to The Growing Readers Podcast.

Kate DiCamillo: You know, we’ve got to stop meeting this way, is what we were just saying backstage, as it were. I mean, actually, let’s not stop meeting this way. It’s pretty great. So thank you for having me.

Bianca Schulze: It’s an absolute pleasure. One of these days, I’ll meet you in person. I don’t know where that will be or when it will happen, but it will happen.

Kate DiCamillo: And I know it will, too, and I’m looking forward to it.

Bianca Schulze: Perfect. Well, of course, we’re going to be talking a lot about books and writing today because what else is there to talk about? I mean, come on.

Kate DiCamillo: And it’s what we both love to talk about, and it gives us hope to talk about it, so.

Bianca Schulze: Yes, exactly. Well, so I’m going to ask my one not book-related question, and it is: You’re such a phenomenal writer and storyteller, and of course, you love to read. So I have to imagine you have some other super skill that we don’t know about. Is there anything special about you that we don’t know about yet?

Kate DiCamillo: No. It’s so funny because I was just on… This is something that happens when you age. You tell a story longer. So I was with some friends at a cabin. See, I just shortened it. I was really going to tell it. And there were, it’s summertime, there were a lot of flies, and everybody was making fun of me because I am just… I’m really good with a fly swatter. I’m kind of like Francine Poulet that way, I guess. And they were all making fun of me because it’s like nobody knows about this superpower of yours that you’re actually very good at, like, fly swatting. And… And then the other thing that they came up with was my other superpower is that I can tell to a nanosecond when the pasta should come out. And I’m not a cook, but, like, everybody calls me in to say, when is the pasta done? And it must be something genetic in my, you know, because I’m Italian. So that’s it. Fly swatter. And when is the pasta cooked to perfection? That’s on your girl.

Bianca Schulze: Okay. I actually need you in my house because my husband is the fly swatter and the pasta tester here, but he’s not always available. But we have kids that do not like bugs, which is funny because they’re dual citizens of Australia and the United States. And so if they actually lived in Australia, they’d have to be used to all the bugs. But I’m the one you call on if you want your pasta pot to boil over. That’s me. I’m always, like, a little underdone with my pasta or a little overdone. It’s never just right.

Kate DiCamillo: You need me. It’s like… And they mock me all the time because I’m an absolute… I can’t do anything in the kitchen, but I can tell you when the pasta is done.

Bianca Schulze: I love it. That’s a very good skill. All right, well, let’s definitely talk about the books now. So, I want to start with your new early reader trilogy, which has begun with Orris and Timble: The Beginning. So, what inspired you to write about the unlikely friendship between a rat and an owl?

Kate DiCamillo: You know, this… I can, as much as I can trace back where things started… This was another kind of pandemic thing where I was looking for comfort. And what happened was Ann Patchett, who is a writer and also owns a wonderful bookstore in Nashville, Tennessee, called Parnassus… Ann… Things come through the bookstore, and if she’s in the back room when they come in, she’ll sometimes say to the kids, her staff, “Oh, send one of those to Kate.” And what came in was an anniversary edition of Frog and Toad. And so this arrived, and it just… I’ve always loved Frog and Toad. Frog and Toad is, let’s face it, nobody’s ever, ever going to approach the brilliance of Frog and Toad. But I fell in love with it all over again in reading the anniversary edition. And here we are in the pandemic, and me searching for comfort and stuff, and I’m like, I want to try to do… I know it sounds really… It sounds wrong to say it. I want to try to do something like Frog and Toad, something that makes me feel safe in the same way those stories make me feel safe. And so that was kind of the inception, and then it was just really… I don’t know how I knew it was going to be about friendship. I don’t know how it became a rat and owl, but I got the names, and then it was just that wonderful thing of finding the rhythm of the words and seeing how they were going to click into place with these characters. And it was deeply, deeply satisfying to do these stories and comforting.

Bianca Schulze: Yeah, well, the themes of friendship and doing the right thing are central to Orris and Timble. So do you want to discuss the sardine can and how you use it in your storytelling to approach the value of doing the good and noble thing?

Kate DiCamillo: Yeah. You know, it’s funny because the sardine can, I don’t know what it is with me and sardine cans. I love them. And, you know, when I was growing up, and I don’t know if they still have this or not, but it was a little key that you would use to roll it back, and it just always seemed very magical to me. So it’s like, okay, it’s a sardine can. And then, guess what? I get to tap into that part of myself that loves advertising, copywriting, because it’s just like, it’s always something that I thought was really fun. So then I designed the sardine can in my mind, and then what happened was, and this is a beautiful thing, the way it morphed, was when my editor and I were working on the rewrites of it. It was, just, “make the noble choice.” And Andrea, my editor, said to me, “What if kids don’t know what noble means? And so can we, like, expand it some?” So then it became, “make the good and noble choice.” And this is one of those wonderful things that happens when you write. It’s just like I was unaware of those subterranean things that were happening with making good and noble choices. And the characters in the story and the sardine can work to all together on a you know somewhere below my subconscious as I’m doing it. And it was only when we pulled up the good part that then I could see and then make those things. Does that make sense, that it was just like, and that’s, to me, one of the beautiful things about writing, where you’re just kind of writing behind your own back? Because if I’d set out to say, okay, let’s tell a story about two friends and what it means to be a friend and how you have to keep on making difficult choices, good and noble choices, I would have failed. But instead, I start with a sardine can, a rat and an owl, and together they find the way to make those difficult choices about what it means to be a friend, what it means to trust, what it means to take a chance and trust somebody, what it means to be, quote unquote, natural enemies, like a rat and an owl, or what it means to look past that and how we can see each other. All of that was happening without me thinking about it. Does that make sense?

Bianca Schulze: Yeah, it does make sense. And I feel like the sardine can is ultimately the subconscious of… yeah, it’s like if you were trying to… I mean, if you were writing a story and it was all about what a character was thinking all the time, you know, that would be monotonous. But somehow this inanimate object, the sardine can, is Orris’s subconscious. And just that continual reminder to do the good and noble thing. And I feel like it really enables a young reader to tap into that. And I loved it.

Kate DiCamillo: And it’s funny because that tweaking of the copy with Andrea and I working on it, and I have, in signing lines and also just out in the world talking to parents, kids will say that that’s what they pick up from the story. Make the good and noble choice. Make the good and noble choice. They like the way it sounds, and I like the way it sounds. And so then it’s there in all of our subconscious, you know, and it’s just… Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Bianca Schulze: It’s a good reminder. So I love books for kids with chapter-ending moments that make them want to keep reading. I like that as an adult, too, and I really thought that… So I also love a really beautiful sentence. So if you don’t mind, I’m going to read the ending of chapter one, because I think it shows how you combined both beautiful sentences and a really sneaky chapter ending. That means a reader couldn’t possibly put a bookmark in at the end of chapter one. They’d have to keep going. Do you mind if I read it?

Kate DiCamillo: I’m going to close my eyes and listen to you.

Bianca Schulze: Okay, perfect.

Kate DiCamillo: And try to keep an open mind about whatever it is that I’ve done. Pretend like I haven’t done it. That’s probably the best thing.

Bianca Schulze: All right. [Bianca reads an excerpt from the book]

Bianca Schulze: And the last page is just an illustration with Orris poking the little mouse snout out through a little hole. And so to end that way, after such beautiful sentences, you’d have to know who was trapped. And so I just love that you ended on such a little cliffhanger to make a reader want to keep reading. And I love the beautiful sentences. So I guess my question for you is, how long do you labor over each beautiful sentence that you write? Like, how long do you just spend on it? And how do you know how you want to end a chapter?

Kate DiCamillo: Yeah, it’s funny because as you were reading it, I remembered the, you know, because I read aloud to myself as I’m writing to try to get the words right. But I did, the first time I did a reading of that aloud at a signing, I thought, I’m just going to, you know, read the first chapter. And there were a lot of young kids in the audience, which was great. And there was this wonderful, incredible silence and tension, and it was like, oh, wow, okay, they’re in. And so I had to keep on going. They wanted, I mean, they were just, it was so moving to me because I hadn’t read it out loud to anybody. And to hear them listening and to see them looking just like they were so big-eyed, it was just wonderful. Okay, so how long do I labor? It is insane how hard it is for me and how I tinker with each sentence and read it, you know, aloud again and again and again. And then there’s that wonderful thing where I can get to a place where I feel like it’s clicking. Everything is clicking exactly where it should be, and then I can hear it as I’m reading out loud. But then what happens, Bianca, is then, you know, it goes to my editor, and then she and I do that aloud, taking turns reading again and again and again, and it’s just like, no, this word here, no, that word there. It’s incredible, because it’s such a short book, how much we labor over each word to make the good and noble choice to get the right word in there, you know?

Bianca Schulze: Yeah. Yeah. I feel like the magic of the editor, too, is like, when you’ve spent so long staring at a sentence. Right. You have to, at some point, go, okay, this is done. And then sometimes that fresh pair of eyes, it… And that one little tweak that they suggest can make such a difference.

Kate DiCamillo: Yeah. And you know that as many times as you and I have talked, I don’t think we’ve ever talked about that editorial piece, and I’m glad that we’re talking about it, because I know from, like, the outside, as a passionate reader, before I was in this industry, I did not understand what it was that an editor does. I thought it was, you know, dotting your i’s and crossing your t’s. But it’s… It’s not. It’s so much more than that. It’s… It’s just that thing that I just said that Andrea and I do where we’re reading it out loud to each other. It’s… It’s that thing of somebody seeing what you’re trying to do, and you can’t… It’s just like you said, you can’t see it anymore, and then they can come in and see it and help you get to that beautiful vision that’s in your head. So I’m glad that we could give a shout out to the editors.

Bianca Schulze: Yeah. They do an amazing job. All right, well, I have to touch on the artwork by Carmen Mok, who did the illustrations for this book, and hopefully I pronounced her last name correctly.

Kate DiCamillo: You did good.

Bianca Schulze: So I think that the artwork is so beautiful and rich in this story. And, you know, for an early reader book, for a kid to be immersed in just such deep illustrations along with these beautiful words, it’s such a synergy for me. So what do you want to add about her artwork?

Kate DiCamillo: I want to add… Yes, exactly. That. That it becomes immersive because of her art and cozy because of her art. And I think cozy is a really important word here, but she also taps into something else, which is, it’s so deeply felt. You can feel the emotions of both of these characters. So while the text is spare and kind of gestures toward these feelings, these deep feelings that Orris and Timble both have, the art brings that all the way home in a way that makes the reader feel their feelings and also makes them feel safe at the same time. That’s what she’s managed to do.

Bianca Schulze: Yeah. That was so well said. All right, well, since this is the first in a trilogy, when do you know a book will be a series versus a singular story? And I feel like we’ve kind of danced around this in other episodes where we’ve chatted. But, like, when do you know it’s going to be more than just a book?

Kate DiCamillo: Well, let’s go to Mercy Watson, which was the first time that I knew that. So I did the first Mercy Watson, and I’ll try to be quick again. I turned it into my agent, who said, “I have no idea what this is, but I love it, and we’ll figure out a way to make it work.” And so she sent it to Candlewick, and they’re like, “We don’t know what this is, but we love it, and we will find a way to make it work.” And so even as they were saying all of that, like, you know, we don’t know what it is, we don’t know how it will work, I’m thinking, I want to do another one, even though y’all are all saying, okay, how do we do it? And so they, of course, figured out brilliantly how to do it with Chris Van Dusen and with the just… And it kind of fit in that niche of somewhere in between easy readers and novels. And so librarians and teachers and parents were all really thrilled to get it. So in the meantime, I was like, I was on the third one by the time the first one came out, because I just knew that I wanted more with that character. And then the question was, how do I stop? Because I just loved doing it so much.

So… And then there have been times where I didn’t at all intend to go back, and that was with when I did Raymie. It’s just like, there’s not going to be anything else here. And then something else showed up, which was Louisiana, saying, I want to tell my own story. So there have been times when it surprises me and times when I’ve known from the very beginning. And so Orris and Timble was one of the times where I knew from the very beginning, oh, I love them. I want to stay in this world and explore these deeply felt feelings between the rat and the owl. And so… But I also… I knew that it was only going to be three, so… And the third one, I just… I still know that. Nope, it’ll stop there. And then there’s also the thing, Bianca, where you get, you know, and this has happened since, because of Because of Winn-Dixie. We need the sequel, say the readers. And it’s those… I still get those letters every week, you know, and I get them for Despereaux, too, and I get them for Edward Tulane. And I just… I always say, nope. I know that that’s that with those. So was that too comprehensive an answer?

Bianca Schulze: I think that… I think that was a fantastic answer. It’s like, you know when you know, and then sometimes it just, you know, you think you know and then you realize you didn’t know and…

Kate DiCamillo: Right. It’s staying open to all of that, and… Which is the trick in doing this job with all of it. And as I’ll say that to young kids sometimes, it’s like, on the other hand, when I’m answering the question about the sequels, I’ve learned never to say never because I keep on being surprised about what can happen.

Bianca Schulze: Yeah. Well, moving to The Norendy Tales: The Hotel Balzaar. This is the second book in the Norendy tales, and both Orris and Timble and The Hotel Balzaar deal with themes of loneliness and connection in their own unique ways. So tell me about these themes, loneliness and connection and how they resonate with you and how you hope that those themes resonate with young readers.

Kate DiCamillo: Well, can I just say as a sidebar, this is the first time I’ve talked about The Hotel Balzaar. So I’m leaning forward as you’re telling me what the themes are. ‘Cause you know how that goes for me. I don’t know what the themes are until…

Bianca Schulze: Until someone says it.

Kate DiCamillo: Yeah. Right. And it’s interesting to have you tie them together. So it’s… It’s loneliness and…

Bianca Schulze: Loneliness and connection. It’s like, there… It’s obviously really different how it’s explored in the two books, but it’s like, you know…

Kate DiCamillo: Yeah, no, I’m thinking about all that and thinking… I mean, really, we could cast the net around everything that I’ve done with those words, you know, loneliness… And… And I think in The Hotel Balzaar, there’s also what I can see… And like I said, I haven’t talked about it and I learn how to talk about a book in talking to readers like you. So I… This is my first time out talking about it, but it also was a product of the pandemic and has that kind of suspended waiting that we were all doing. I can… I am aware of that. And looking at it and looking back and doing it, not aware as I was doing it. But it’s that kind of like suspended waiting and that waiting to, you know, the loneliness that comes with that isolation and the desire to connect. But like I said, those seem to be my themes no matter what I’m doing, unless I’m writing about a pig and then it’s just about toast with a great deal of butter. Right? It’s just like loneliness and connection. Okay, so how do I feel? Like those are universal human feelings and that kids know them just as well as adults do and just, and perhaps even more profoundly because they’re more in touch with, you know, we learn to put up all the barriers and tell ourselves stories about how we’re not lonely or we are connected. And I think kids are… They don’t tell themselves those stories. They want to make that friendship. They want to be less alone. Those feelings aren’t as guarded in them. So I feel like they will meet me on the page and in the same place of loneliness and longing that story was written in. Does that make sense?

Bianca Schulze: Yeah, I think that’s beautiful. Yeah. Yeah. Since then, The Hotel Balzaar has been the second Norendy tale. So it’s a standalone story. But what do you want listeners to know about how it might connect or is different from the first Norendy tale, The Puppets of Spelthorst?

Kate DiCamillo: The connection is that it happens in this place called Norendy, which is us and not us. So it’s kind of like, you know, it’s that thing where if you squint, it’s the real world, but if you look closer, it’s not. So it opens up possibilities. And then there is a very, I don’t know if you saw it in the art or not because, again, I haven’t, like, talked to anybody about this, but there is an explicit nod to The Puppets of Spelthorst within this tale. And I won’t say where it is or how it is, but, and that will happen too with the third tale. And it also relates to that feeling of it being, if you squint, it becomes this world and if you squint, you see these connections. So that kind of feeling. Magical, I’m hoping.

Bianca Schulze: Yeah, but it’s the kind of, it’s the kind of magic that isn’t in your face. It’s just, you know, it’s there.

Kate DiCamillo: Yeah, it’s what… And I’ve used this, I don’t think that I’ve said this with you, but I use it when people ask, why? Why do you write for kids? And part of it is because of that feeling. It’s what I call peripheral magic, which I then use the borrowers as an example of the little people who live in your floorboard. And that if you… That feeling that you have as a kid where if you’re quiet enough and if you turn slowly enough, you will be able to see those magical beings that are there. And I think that as we get older, we get rid of that feeling. But there’s something in me that still thinks if I turn slowly enough and I’m quiet enough, I’m gonna see that magic.

Bianca Schulze: Yes, I see that. And I feel like the fact that you just brought up the borrowers is a good segue into my next question because there’s this Studio Ghibli movie version of the borrowers that’s called The Secret World of Arrietty. And it’s stunning. And so when I was…

Kate DiCamillo: I’ve never seen it. You’ll have to… Can you send me?

Bianca Schulze: Yes. You’re gonna love it. You’re gonna love it. So when I was reading The Hotel Balzaar, I got complete, like, Wes Anderson movie vibes. And I saw it so visually and so it made me wonder, do you watch TV and movies? And what other artistic mediums, beyond writing and books, inspire you?

Kate DiCamillo: You and your good questions and you and your Wes Anderson reference. Because I, you know, I’m not aware of much, but I’m aware of… I’m aware of how much I love… I mean, that connection was obliquely there in my head. Now I’m blanking on the name of that particular one with the hotel, the Wes Anderson…

Bianca Schulze: I’m terrible at recalling movie titles, so I’m terrible. I’m right there with you. Yeah. There’s somebody listening, shouting at us right now, Kate.

Kate DiCamillo: That’s like, what is wrong with you people? So, yes, so visually and, you know, and this is something that I say when I, when I talk to kids about writing. It’s just like, you know, this, the eternal question, where do you get your ideas? That adults ask it actually just as much as kids. But it’s just like I’m always looking and to look and to get the feeling from a movie or, you know, I have an art book that, you know, every morning after I’ve done the writing, I go back upstairs and I write in my journal and I read poetry and I have an art book. And I look at one painting each morning and just study it and let myself fall into it. And how that informs the writing is impossible to say, but I know that it does. And it’s the same way for the movies and the way that they look and the way they feel.

Bianca Schulze: And…

Kate DiCamillo: And so it’s just like, you’re getting… You know, all of that is inspiration, and all of it is just like the world itself is. But, yeah, we will come up with the title of that movie. But the way that Wes Anderson movies look is very much, you know… Yes. It’s just like, when I wrote The Magician’s Elephant, I had seen… I’d seen a movie called In Bruges, and it was just like, the way that felt was the way that I wanted this world to feel, you know? So… Yeah.

Bianca Schulze: Yeah. Well, let’s… Since we’re talking kind of about a more visual medium, then we have to talk about Julia Sarda’s incredible artwork. There’s a scene in which the countess is in her bed, and it’s early on, and I just… This whole wave went over me of Maurice Sendak vibes, but her patterns, her textures… I mean, the whole thing is just a vibe. So tell me about the artwork.

Kate DiCamillo: The artwork is beyond my… It’s above my pay grade. Let’s say that. It’s just like… I’m, like, waiting for… I mean, because when this comes in, you know, as art comes in, and I don’t… You know, I think we’ve talked about this before, but it’s funny to me that the general public just never knows that, you know, you’re not sitting side by side. I’m not talking to Julia. You know, it’s like, it comes via my editor, and it has gone through her having discussions with the art director, you know, so it’s very, like, over to the side, and so… And then I’m brought in to say, yeah, no, I think this, or I think that I… This artwork is so beyond anything that I just… I had… No, I was like, I can’t say anything. It is… You help me, Bianca. How do we talk about this? It bypasses something verbal. It bypasses taking it apart. It taps right into something really profound, and in our brains and our psyches, it is an astonishment. This art is… The text is paltry in comparison to the art. That’s what I want to say. As the person who wrote the text, I’m allowed to say that. So… Okay, so you help me come up with some more words for it.

Bianca Schulze: I’m, like, completely laughing, because you’re like, “You help me, Bianca.” You just… I mean, I wouldn’t have been able to come up with half of what you just did to describe her artwork. I’m just like, it’s such a vibe, you know? That’s all I’ve got for you. Because sometimes when something really resonates with me, I don’t have the words to share it. I just know how it made me feel, and it made me feel as though I was inside the book. So that’s…

Kate DiCamillo: I’ll steal that from you. Yeah, that’s perfect. That’s it, exactly. And it’s just like… And you’re right. When something really, really resonates with us, it goes beyond language and becomes this thing where you can feel like… It’s just kind of like thrumming inside of you, but it’s that it takes you into this world without… I mean, it’s just like everything else disappears. It’s immersive. Maybe that’s what we want. It’s immersive. Yeah.

Bianca Schulze: Yeah, absolutely right. Well, another huge part of why I love your writing is the profound moments that you weave in that can only really plant a seed for deeper thinking in young readers. So I’d like to read another excerpt of one such momentous… And I’d love to hear your thoughts on this moment in the story when I’m done.

Kate DiCamillo: All right. Okay. I’ll try.

Bianca Schulze: Okay. Now, I’m probably going to butcher this name again, but as we said before we even started recording, you know, when you say a name, I guess it’s kind of up to… Up to me how I’m going to say it when I’m reading a story. So, Alphonse Norman. Sorry,

[Bianca reads an excerpt from the book, which I won’t reproduce here to avoid copyright issues.]

Kate DiCamillo: And again, I’m leaning forward, listening. Yeah. It’s so funny to hear you read it because it gives me that distance from it and to think… And I can hear those characters talking, but I also hear me talking to myself about what 60 years in this world has taught me and how hard it is and to control things, and ridiculous to try, because what matters is not things lining up just so, but rather being able to be here in love while you’re here. And so all of that, I had not articulated, articulating to myself as I’m writing. I can, I can hear it as you’re reading. It’s just like that… It’s kind of like that gentle reminder to myself. It’s just like everything’s never, it’s never going to be perfect.

And it’s funny because it’s like what I say to kids sometimes about writing and writing them, you know, whatever they’re working on, you know, it’s not going to be perfect. And more to the point, you don’t want it to be perfect because when something is perfect, it’s off-putting. And where we find our way into stories and writing is when it’s imperfect and messy, because this is an undertaking for human beings to tell stories that other human beings can find their way through the world with these stories. And that’s, it’s a human undertaking and it’s not about perfection. So all of that, all of those preoccupations going on in my mind end up in the bellman at the Hotel Balzaar talking about the front desk men. And it’s interesting to get to talk about… That’s why we keep on talking. That’s why you and I keep talking, so I can try to figure myself out. I love it.

Bianca Schulze: I love it. I love it. All right. Well, can we talk about how both Orris and Timble and The Hotel Balzaar end with “Coda: Friends” and “Coda,” respectively? Because a coda is usually the conclusion to a musical piece. So tell me why using the term coda at the end of your stories is meaningful to you.

Kate DiCamillo: Yeah, I seem to be doing it quite a bit, actually. I mean, I think I should go back. And it’s a great, it’s like, I’m just thinking, no one’s ever asked me that before. So let’s just take a small commercial break and say, good job, Bianca, and let’s see why I, I love… I’m going to have to go all the way back to being a kid. I played the piano. I hated it. I was very good at it. And those two things are not mutually exclusive. And I did it because my father wanted me to do it. And it’s, and I, so that’s where, that’s where Coda is from, is from all those piano pieces that I learned how to play. And it has stuck in my head ever since.

But it is a way to come back always gently and remind myself and the reader about what we’ve just been through together. And so it is a way of claiming the story, I guess. It’s a fantastic question, Bianca, but no one’s ever asked me before, and I’m just really interested in hearing what I think, you know? It’s just like… Yeah, it is a way of claiming the story for myself and the reader. We were in us together. And like I said, there’s also a certain way it’s loaded for me because of hating to play the piano, getting to the end of the piece, having to play the coda, it’s a way of reclaiming myself.

Bianca Schulze: I love that answer. So I had this question written down for you, and I’m like, I’m looking, and I’m like, I don’t know. I must have went to move it in my order, and now it’s not even there. But it was one of my most important questions, so I’m gonna… I can’t even remember how I wanted to ask the question, so I’m gonna ask this question, and I don’t know, it probably won’t come out as elegantly, but the fascinating part is the narrative style of The Hotel Balzaar for me, which is the stories within the story. So talk to me about that process of writing a story that is really a collection of small stories that just is one big story. So it just… It blew my mind. So talk to me about that.

Kate DiCamillo: Yeah, so there are… I love that feeling. I love that feeling as a kid where it’s a story within a story, because it… It… You can… It’s kind of like you can feel… You can feel kind of like it to me. It feels like… I don’t know if these are still around, but when I was growing up, there were Easter eggs that, you know, you could look through and you could see there was this little scene inside the Easter egg. So it was like a world within a world. And that feeling was very much in my mind as I was doing this.

And also, the other thing that was in my mind as I was doing it was Isak Dinesen, who is a Danish writer of kind of fairy tale-esque stories for adults. And that thing of how you could feel that the stories were connected, it makes you feel… I keep on coming back to trapdoor, and I don’t want that because it makes you feel unsafe. But it’s rather… It is a way to move from world to world to world, and you’re… And you’re safe within this little box at the same time, do you know? And so it was just like… And I didn’t, you know, me, I don’t… I don’t plot it out before it happens. So it’s like, are all these little stories that the countess is telling to, are they, are they all connected? I don’t know. So I was, I’m discovering, as the reader is discovering, you know, so it has that feeling of discovery, and that brings me, again, back to the trapdoor. But it’s just like, it’s rather like, you know, the door, and I don’t want to give anything away. The door that they discover upstairs. That’s the way the whole book felt for me was like opening another door that opens to another door and a smaller door and a smaller door.

Bianca Schulze: Yeah.

Bianca Schulze: All right. Well, then I’m going to go on to this question. So as a two-time Newbery Medal winner and former National Ambassador for Young People’s Literature, you’ve had an incredible journey as an author. So how do you feel your writing has evolved from Because of Winn-Dixie to your latest works?

Kate DiCamillo: I don’t know. Can you tell me? That’s like, that’s like an, that’s like an essay question. I, you know, I don’t… It has certainly evolved, but I think, you know, that goes back to you when you were talking about Orris and Timble and The Hotel Balzaar and this loneliness and the desire for connection, and that’s there… In Because of Winn-Dixie, so there’s a through line.

And I have gotten to explore those themes in a multiplicity of ways because of Winn-Dixie. You know, that book was this golden doorway that I got to walk through into this world of writing for kids. And the way people responded to that book allowed me to keep on exploring those same themes in different ways. And now you answer the question, Bianca.

Bianca Schulze: Because I don’t really, I know. I feel like I would have to literally close myself in a room for a couple of days and read everyone in the order that you wrote them as well. To really be able to answer that in an articulate way. Yeah, I don’t have an answer.

Kate DiCamillo: No. It’s a toughie. And it’s the kind of thing where when I’m going to sleep tonight, I better make sure that I do not think about it because it would… It would… And, you know, it’s, it’s kind of, to my mind, it goes in the same way that, you know, when I talk about the Newbery Medals, you know, because they’re actually medals. And sometimes kids will say, where are they? And it’s like, I’ll tell you where they are. They’re in the second left-hand drawer of my desk all the way at the back. And, like, once every six months, I might slowly open that drawer and look and see that they’re back there and then slam it shut. And it’s the same way with thinking what, what’s the trajectory of things that has changed since Because of Winn-Dixie? It is too enormous for me to think about it. And I think, boy, that’s not my job. My job is to just get out of my own way and listen to the stories.

Bianca Schulze: Yeah, well, I want to just share a fun little story that I was at an event and somebody heard me speaking and they came up to me and said, “Wow, you sound just like you do on your podcast.” So that was really cool for me. It was the first time somebody had come up and said that they were a listener. But what was great for me is they said their favorite episodes are the Kate DiCamillo episodes.

For anybody that’s listening, that is a major Kate DiCamillo fan and also is a writer themselves or maybe an aspiring children’s book author. Do you have a little tip or something that you would want to leave them with today?

Kate DiCamillo: I do. I want to… And I’ll go at this, of course, in a roundabout way. But there’s a wonderful memoir by Elizabeth McCracken about losing her first child. And she talks in that book about how when she was a teenager on a bus in Boston, a deaf person came through and handed out cards that said, “I am deaf and mute.” And she thought how much she wished that she had a way to tell people about this terrible thing that had happened to her with losing her first kid without actually having to say it. And then she thought, I guess people wouldn’t mind getting a card about it. That would make it easier. And then she thought, and she said, it just occurred to me that this, what I’m doing now, writing this book, is the way to let people know. And to me, I think that that’s what’s so important about this work. And so I want to say to anybody who’s doing this that it matters, that it is a way to make people feel less alone. It’s kind of like, I think of it as this luminescent rectangle that you can hand to somebody that lets them know how you’re feeling and tells them the truth and also comforts them at the same time and makes them feel less alone. So it is a way for us to be together in this world. And so it matters because there are going to be many people who tell you it doesn’t matter, go and get a real job. But I’m telling you, it matters and you should keep on doing it. That’s what I say.

Bianca Schulze: I’m so glad I asked that question. I thought that response was so beautiful in that that’s what you’re doing. You know, you have feelings. You have stories inside of you. And these fiction stories that come out are pieces of you, Kate. And so through all of your writing, I know that community and hope and light are such essential elements for you in your storytelling. So I have to imagine that they are in your everyday life. Tell me where you’re seeing the light seep through in Kate DiCamillo’s world right now.

Kate DiCamillo: What a beautiful question. The first answer is right outside my window, which is the bee balm in my front yard. And that is light-filled. I walk by there and there are these huge bumblebees working, working. And every time I see them, I say, thank you, because that is light. And light, for me also is right across the street. If I walk past my bee balm and cross over the street, one of my best friends lives right across the street. And the light there is gathering around her table. She is an excellent cook. That is light to be with those friends, to walk past the bumblebees, to go into that house, to sit around a table with people I love and eat wonderful food. That is light.

So… And then the other thing is those early mornings when I am reading poetry and looking at art and finding the light that other people have made, that helps me find my way. That, too.

Bianca Schulze: Yeah. And then your neighbor that lives across the road, correct me if I’m wrong, but is also a writer.

Kate DiCamillo: That is correct. Yes.

Bianca Schulze: I feel like you said it… Like I feel like you… I think you said it briefly in another chat. I don’t know how I knew that, but that’s… Yeah. I’m just a creepy stalker, Kate. So… So I also know from something that you put in an email ahead of our chat today that maybe there’s some lights that go on when you’re both writing. Is that… Is that true?

Kate DiCamillo: That’s right. Yeah. We both have star lights, and so we turn them on, and it’s great because it’s just, like, up. You know, it, like, kind of holds you to it a little bit, but it’s also the, okay, somebody else is up and working.

Bianca Schulze: Yeah, that’s really fun. Well, as we wrap up, I want to reflect on what feels like a fundamental truth, that the only constant in life is change. And stories are our companions through this ever-shifting landscape, and they emerge continuously, each one a new opportunity to make sense of our world and search for meaning.

So reading a Kate DiCamillo story is much like pondering whether a glass is half empty or half full. Is the tale before us one of sadness or hope? And often it’s both. And perhaps that duality is exactly what we need. Kate’s stories, like life itself, are rarely black and white. They invite us to explore the nuances, to find comfort in complexity, and to discover the perspective that resonates with us in the moment. So, to our dear listeners, as you turn the pages of Kate’s books or any story that finds its way into your hands, remember, you’re not just reading words on a page. You’re engaging in a timeless human tradition of seeking understanding, finding solace, and maybe, just maybe, glimpsing a reflection of yourself in the characters you meet along the way.

So, Kate DiCamillo, thank you so much for being here once again today with myself and the listeners.

Kate DiCamillo: You made me cry. Thank you. It’s deeply moving to me every time we get together. And thank you for those beautiful, beautiful words. And thank you to everybody who’s out there reading stories, reading stories out loud and writing stories. We all need each other so that we can see each other.

About the Books

Publisher’s Book Summary: From beloved storyteller Kate DiCamillo comes the first book in a warm and funny early-reader trilogy about a misanthropic rat and a naive owl—and the beginning of a beautiful friendship.

Orris the rat lives alone in an old barn surrounded by his treasures, until the day his solitude is disrupted by a sudden flutter of wings and a loud screech. A small owl has gotten caught in a trap in the barn. Can Orris “make the good and noble choice” (as the king on his prized sardine can might recommend) and rescue the owl, despite the fact that owls and rats are natural enemies? And if he does, will he be ready for the consequences? With humor and tenderness, two-time Newbery Medalist Kate DiCamillo brings us this first of three tales celebrating unlikely friendship and the power of sharing stories and doing the right thing—a soon-to-be classic brought to expressive life by the full-color illustrations of Carmen Mok.

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Publisher’s Book Summary: In a wise and magical follow-up to The Puppets of Spelhorst, Kate DiCamillo revisits the land of Norendy, where tales swirl within tales—and every moment is a story in the making.

At the Hotel Balzaar, Marta’s mother rises before the sun, puts on her uniform, and instructs Marta to roam as she will but quietly, invisibly—like a little mouse. While her mother cleans rooms, Marta slips down the back staircase to the grand lobby to chat with the bellman, study the painting of an angel’s wing over the fireplace, and watch a cat chase a mouse around the face of the grandfather clock, all the while dreaming of the return of her soldier father, who has gone missing. One day, a mysterious countess with a parrot checks in, promising a story—in fact, seven stories in all, each to be told in its proper order. As the stories unfold, Marta begins to wonder: could the secret to her father’s disappearance lie in the countess’s tales? Book two in a trio of novellas bound by place and mood—with elegant line art by Júlia Sardà—The Hotel Balzaar masterfully juggles yearning and belief, shining light into every dark corner.

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Show Notes

Kate DiCamillo is one of America’s most beloved storytellers. She is a former National Ambassador for Young People’s Literature and a two-time Newbery Medalist. Born in Philadelphia, she grew up in Florida and now lives in Minneapolis.

Visit Kate DiCamillo online: ⁠https://www.katedicamillo.com/

Thank you for listening to the Growing Readers Podcast episode Doors to Other Worlds: Kate DiCamillo Explores Connection Through Storytelling. For the latest episodes from The Growing Readers Podcast, Subscribe or Follow Now.