Mining for the Heart of History: Beth Anderson on ‘Thomas Jefferson and the Battle for Science’

A podcast interview with Beth Anderson discussing Thomas Jefferson’s Battle for Science: Bias, Truth, and a Mighty Moose on The Growing Readers Podcast, a production of The Children’s Book Review.

In this episode of The Growing Readers podcast, award-winning children’s author Beth Anderson discusses her latest book, Thomas Jefferson’s Battle for Science: Bias, Truth, and a Mighty Moose.

Beth shares her unique approach to crafting engaging nonfiction, including her process of “mining for the heart of the story” and her dedication to thorough research and meticulous revision.

Listeners will gain insight into:

• Beth’s writing journey and her passion for bringing lesser-known historical events to life
• The importance of critical thinking and questioning in children’s literature
• How stories from the past can empower young readers
• The collaborative process between author and illustrator in picture book creation

Beth also gives a sneak peek into her upcoming titles, including stories about America’s first female detective and a teenage sculptor who created an iconic statue of Abraham Lincoln. This episode is a must-listen for anyone interested in children’s literature, history, or the art of storytelling.

Join us for an inspiring conversation about widening children’s worlds through compelling nonfiction and the power of connecting readers to the past.

Listen to the Episode

Read the Transcription

Bianca Schulze: Well, hello, Beth. Welcome to The Growing Readers Podcast.

Beth Anderson: Thank you. It’s lovely to be here.

Bianca Schulze: I am so excited to talk to you about Thomas Jefferson’s Battle for Science: Bias, Truth, and a Mighty Moose, and I absolutely love that title. I want to say it again. The “bias, truth, and a mighty moose” part is such a great title. But before we go all the way into this new book of yours, I want to ask a question that I ask a lot of people, and that is, to be a writer, they often say you need to be a reader first. So, was there a pivotal moment for you in which you considered yourself a reader?

Beth Anderson: You know, I don’t think that there was a moment. I think it was a time of just growing into reading. And like your podcast says, you know, you grow readers. I don’t remember any certain moment. I just remember always being read to. I remember always going to the library and always being interested in reading books. So I think it was just a gradual process for me.

Bianca Schulze: Yeah. Do you have any memories or recollections of a book that really touched you as either a child or a teenager?

Beth Anderson: Well, I used to read a lot of Nancy Drew mysteries, and so I love a great mystery. I did read a lot of biographies when I was sort of 8-10 years old. But, you know, those weren’t the biographies that we have today. They were middle grade biographies. They were very kind of straightforward and sterile and not that engaging. And so that’s one reason why I love to work on bringing that humanity out in all these people from the past where maybe we didn’t see it so much, to bring that connection.

Bianca Schulze: Yeah, I love that. My son is a huge nonfiction reader, and I think, I mean, the children’s literature, like you said, especially in the nonfiction realm, has come along so far in terms of graphics and illustrations and just making the content engaging. You’ve said this before, so through your writing, you seek to widen a child’s world, to get them thinking. So, in terms of what we were just saying, how do you find the balance of the need to inform and educate kids, but keep that desire to entertain and engage young readers? So, how do you approach that?

Beth Anderson: Well, I think it’s in the story choice. You know, when I’m looking at an idea, I have to be able to be so enamored with it myself that I know I won’t quit for a couple of years because it’s going to take that long to make it actually a book. And so, you know, it’s a balance. And I think if it just seems like a lot of information and there’s nothing really to hook kids, nothing entertaining, nothing engaging, then I kind of let it go, or else I research it and then it just sits. But it’s the ones that have humor or science or just something oddly interesting or something that just makes you passionate about something, a topic or a person, a concept. Those are the ones that push me to get those into books. And, yeah, it’s a balance. I don’t think that much about it, actually, but I think when you start writing, you know if it’s not going to go anywhere.

Bianca Schulze: I think about whether it’s fiction or nonfiction; there’s a great screenwriting book. I’m totally blanking on the author’s name right now, but, you know, he says your reader has to really feel for the character. And so whether that’s a person from history or it’s a completely fictional person, if the reader doesn’t care about the person that they’re reading about, they’re not really going to care about everything else. So you can add in all the action, all the bombings, all the fighting, you know, all the arguing. That’s irrelevant if the reader doesn’t care about the person. So I love that, and it’s going to lead me to the next question.

I’ve also heard you use the words “mining for the heart of the story,” which I absolutely love. So, will you elaborate on what this means and how you go about mining for the heart of a story?

Beth Anderson: Well, it’s something that can be torture or it can be a lot of fun. Once in a while, it comes quickly, but most of the time, it doesn’t really. It’s a digging into not only the story and all the ideas present in it, but also into oneself to see what you really connect with. And why is it that you want to write this story? What are you passionate about? Why do you care? Why do you want to put all this effort into it? You know, it’s more than theme. I think theme is a universal statement, but heart is a very personal connection between author and story.

And, you know, it comes, really, from me learning from Barb Rosenstock, and she calls it the same kind of idea, the “so what.” And hearing her talk about the “so what” at a retreat in 2016 really changed me as a beginning writer to really see, oh, yeah. If I don’t find a unique angle into the story, it’s just a Wikipedia article, basically. It’s just a pile of facts. And like you said, you know, you can’t connect personally with a pile of facts. You’ve got to get that humanity. You’ve got to get something that kind of tweaks the interest so that a child continues to ponder some of those ideas after they leave the book and they start to see different things out in the world, maybe see a few things differently.

Candice Fleming is another author that I have stalked for years. I have gone to so many of her webinars and such, but she calls it the “vital idea.” And the way she explains it really helped me get a hold of that idea of heart. But my basic process for finding the heart is as I’m researching and I’m starting to gather ideas and put them into a spiral, I’m taking down notes on character, on setting, on title ideas. When that pops, I write it down because I’ll forget. And if I put it on a piece of scrap of paper, I’ll never find it again. So I’ve learned to organize in a spiral and just capture ideas and thoughts as they occur.

And once I finally get pretty far into the research and really want to do this story, I start to explore what I would call the heart. And it starts with just a brainstorm, just a pour it all on the page, let the thoughts flow about why this story? What is it about this? Who? What about this character? What do I see in here that’s unique and special for kids? And by just sort of, you know, going at it for a page or two, and I write by hand for that because my brain just works differently when I write by hand. And so when I do that, then I usually, you know, by the time I get about three-quarters of the way through a page, I’ve got some nuggets in there that I can, things are starting to gel and pop in my head and it’s like, oh, wow. Yeah.

Bianca Schulze: Yeah, absolutely. Thomas Jefferson is somebody that kids will hear about in their education. And so, but, like, how do you make Thomas Jefferson relevant to our readers today? And we do hear a lot about misinformation and fact-checking and all of those sorts of topics. And so I love that that’s the angle that you took because it’s a little-known angle about Thomas Jefferson, and it makes him relevant again and makes him interesting, and it makes kids want to learn more about him.

Beth Anderson: So for Thomas Jefferson’s Battle for Science, I just saw the idea of truth and consequences, of misinformation and faulty facts and all that. And that’s our world, and it’s only getting worse because of AI and all the things that we are bombarded with on the Internet. We can’t tell what’s true and what’s not true, and it’s too easy to believe stuff that’s not. And so I think it’s a really important topic. But that story was also really quirky. And so, you know, it had so much to love for me, but also for a kid, I think.

Bianca Schulze: Yeah, absolutely. Well, I know that, like with any writing, revision is such an essential part of the writing process, and obviously with nonfiction research, research. But let’s talk a lot more about the revision right now. I want to know the techniques you use and how they help you approach your revision with a fresh perspective, because I have to imagine when you’ve done all the research for nonfiction, there’s so much information that you could include. But the art of a children’s book, especially a picture book biography, is in the paring down. So there must be so much revision that goes into it. So just talk to me about your process, your technique, and just, you know, all of that.

Beth Anderson: Much of the revision is focus and structure, and, you know, that’s never really even completely done until I do editorial revisions with an editor. So it’s a huge process. But I kind of start these days. I do it a little differently than I used to. I kind of start by throwing a bunch of the pieces that I want to use onto the page and the computer, and then I start building scenes and trying to see, you know, how that kind of flows. And for me, though, the hardest part is that first draft, you know, to get it into anything basic.

And I know everybody says, and I taught it as a teacher, just get it down, right? Just put it on the page. Don’t worry about the revisions and the edits and all that good stuff. But, man, that is really hard for me because I start tweaking words right away.

I find phrases I love and words that go together beautifully. And so I end up kind of working through a couple of scenes, and then the next time I come at it, I work through those again, and then I move a little further, and so it’s this slow edging towards ending. But I’m still always fine-tuning that first part because I can’t leave it alone. So, yes, we’re not supposed to do that. We’re supposed to get it on the page. But I do kind of think out the arc and kind of where I want the story to go first. I’m a plotter. I plot it because I have to know where I’m going with it. And, of course, the beginning and the ending are the pieces that keep changing throughout. And if I tweak the heart of it, then that totally changes beginning and ending.

So once I get it down, and this book, I wrote a blog article about revision, and I looked back at what I did, and almost every revision had changes to the beginning and ending. But it was that middle part. And for this book, the hard part was trying to make this big idea of measuring truth comprehensible and meaningful and make it come across as best for kids. And I sort of landed on this phrase of “thinking like a scientist,” because I’ve heard teachers use that phrase plenty of times. Kids know what that means. And that was what Thomas Jefferson was doing. He was a person who, you know, he was very learned. He was self-taught mostly. He was very shy. He was not trained in science, but he couldn’t stop measuring things. He would go out with a little notepad in his pocket all the time, and he would stop and measure things. He was just obsessive.

But then the measuring of truth became this really big concept that kind of pulled away. And so there were so many cool things, like, you know, to bring in the idea of the Declaration of Independence, because he wrote that draft. And those truths that are really the big, heavy truths of the heart, those were in there for a while, but I ended up having to take them out because it was just too much. And then there was also the idea of what Buffon was talking about, the French scientist, and how Jefferson responded. There was more than just the quadrupeds or the four-footed animals. There were things about insects and how many species there were and things like that, but those had to be pared out and taken away because it was too much. A lot of the revision is that.

But as far as a physical revision of what I do, I mostly do it on the computer. Cutting, moving, you know, redoing. I use the review tab, and I leave myself notes with alternative phrasings and questions to think about. And usually, before I’m even done, I go back and I know what I want to do there. So those little places that aren’t working, I talk to myself, basically. I also like to print it out on one side of the page and cut it up. I slice and dice it.

Bianca Schulze: Love that.

Beth Anderson: Because when you have the pieces and you can go to sentence level, paragraph level, scene level, whatever. When you have the pieces and you can move them around physically, to me, it’s much easier to think about that whole process than just moving it on a computer screen, where you never see the whole thing, because seeing it all makes a difference. And so you can see, oh, I’m saying this twice. I can pull it out here. What happens if I move this forward? I can physically move it on the desk and see how that reads. So that’s one way I like to do it.

My other favorite way is to print it out on one side and just lay it across the whole desk. So I have this big, long row of pages, and then I use colored highlighters to mark different things. So I might mark characterization in one color. I might look at conflict. Where’s my conflict? I can mark heart pieces. Where are those heart pieces? And so there might be just two or three things I’m looking at each time I do that, and I just do it a few times during that whole process. I think this one ended up with 46 revisions in total. But by doing that, you can see what you’re missing, and you can see where you have a glob of information and then nothing in another spot. And so you can look and see, well, I need to bring the heart through this part, or I need to get to this conflict faster. So those are two basic ways, or three basic ways I like to do it.

Bianca Schulze: Yeah, I love that because it’s really, you know, appealing to, I think sometimes I think visually, and so I think having that technique to be able to visually see the elements like that. I know that my 6th grader with her essay has to highlight and mark the different parts, you know? So, I mean, this is genius. I love the way it teaches, because your background is a teacher, how sometimes you have these techniques that maybe if you don’t have an educational background, you don’t think about. I have to ask you, because you have a whiteboard behind you, and I can see different colors, sticky notes. I can’t read what’s on them, which is not my business anyway. But I’m curious, like, what do you use the whiteboard for and the sticky notes?

Beth Anderson: Once in a while, I use it for reminders or things like that. But mostly it’s when I need to look at the plotting and as I find ideas and I don’t know where they’re gonna play out in the story, I use sticky notes on there, and I can move things around and I can see, you know, when I see certain concepts I wanna bring through, I can put them up there and see.

And I used it a lot with Smelly Kelly and His Super Senses because there were so many places where I had to plant an idea and then have it come to fruition later in the story. And so it became just a mind mess to try to do it, until I used sticky notes and put all the pieces up. And, okay, if he needs this tool here, then he’s going to have to invent it over here, you know? And so I had to match up all those little things of, you know, the plot to make it pop. Right. And I can’t imagine doing a novel like that.

Bianca Schulze: I know, right? I’ve seen some novelists on Instagram with walls of sticky notes, and I’m like, that is just blowing my mind right now.

Beth Anderson: Yeah. So it’s kind of like whatever concepts you have to understand to get to this point later, because you don’t want to dump it all in one place. That would be what nonfiction writers call an information dump, and those are not good things because those kind of kill off the thrill of the read. So you have to kind of plant them and sprinkle them through.

Bianca Schulze: Yes. All right. Well, in your book, Thomas Jefferson’s Battle for Science: Bias, Truth, and a Mighty Moose, you explore a lesson on side of one of America’s most famous founding fathers. So what inspired you to write about Jefferson’s love for science and his battle against misinformation?

Beth Anderson: It was just such a quirky incident, and one of the things I do love, and I did it in one other book, but to see a different side of a famous figure, I like to write about people we’ve never heard of or something we’ve never heard of about someone we know from history, because we get these images of people that aren’t necessarily true. And there’s so much about Jefferson that is negative but also positive. And so, you know, you have to make them be real, like we are. We all make mistakes. He made big mistakes.

And so it was an… It was a book that had science, which I love. It has humor, which I love. And it also had a different side to Jefferson, and he became much more real to me to find out how shy he was and how he didn’t want to speak and how he was mortified when the other people in his committee were revising his declaration of independence. He felt those same things we all feel, that fear. How do you confront the greatest authority in the world and tell him he’s wrong? You’re going to need some good arguments.

Bianca Schulze: Yes.

Beth Anderson: So it had so much of that, but it also had that love of science. You know, the kids are just discovering in school and so much about the history that you don’t think about, you know, for him to deal with this thing in France, every message had to come across the ocean, and it could take six weeks, and some letters get lost and they come, you know, out of order. And so it’s, it’s a mess, but we don’t consider those things. And, you know, the stress that that causes when you get, you get the bill, but you don’t get the moose. What? Well, what happened? Where’s the moose? This is a lot more than I thought it would be. Now, it’s all really relatable things about people, but there’s also the idea that he made mistakes and he had to admit them, although some of the bigger ones are pushed into back matter because I didn’t want to, I had to focus that story really tightly.

Bianca Schulze: Yeah. And I’m always a huge fan of back matter. And so I loved the back matter in this book and the author’s note. And I think it is really important, I think not only for your readers to understand that humans are multifaceted. Just when somebody is successful in one area, they’re making mistakes in other areas and learning from them. But I think also as an author, I feel sometimes when you’re writing about a person and you are just picking this one spot of their past, that having that author’s note also shows to other readers that you did look at the big picture and that you, as a human being, also understand who Thomas Jefferson is.

And that, to me, gives more credit to your story, that you really saw him as the whole person. So I think back matter is just so important, and it tells us more about the author, and I think it helps readers to want to go off and learn more about that person as well.

All right, well, let’s talk about one of your favorite pages in the book that shows Jefferson infuriated by the information about America in Count Buffon’s encyclopedia. So, do you want to read the text from the page and elaborate on how this scene sets the stage for the rest of the story and how it ties into the book’s themes of critical thinking and questioning?

Beth Anderson: Okay, so the moment when he’s reading the book, and I have to say something about Jeremy Holmes’s illustrations, they are phenomenal. And he really merged text and art like nobody I’ve ever seen. So you have to really see the book and the illustrations because he added little bits here and there, too, in the art. And I have to say the part where Jefferson is so, so angry. That’s really showing his internal conflict. Because actually, when he was talking to the scientist over dinner, he really held it all inside and he controlled himself, and he had great respect for this guy, and he was very polite. So I want kids to know that sometimes you just got to hold that anger back. And you can’t yell at people. You have to just really present your case.

Bianca Schulze: Yeah, absolutely. And I can’t wait to talk more about the illustrations because I’m glad you brought that one when his face is just so red, like, ready to explode. That illustration, I think, was hands down my favorite.

Beth Anderson: I’m not sure which page you’re referring to.

Bianca Schulze: Did he use faulty facts? And did he pick and choose evidence to fit his own beliefs? Yeah.

Beth Anderson: Okay. Yeah, this is where he’s got some internal conflict burning away here. Buffon’s theory simmered inside Thomas. How did Buffon come up with this idea of an inferior America? Did he use faulty facts? Did he pick and choose evidence to fit his own beliefs? Did his love for Europe get in the way? Suddenly science wasn’t certain or peaceful? Yeah, that’s one of my favorite moments, because that’s where it goes. Boom.

Bianca Schulze: Yeah. So talk to me a little bit about finding those words and choosing those words. And, I mean, so much goes into your plotting. So, like, the placement of those words at that point in the story.

Beth Anderson: Well, the words that were those defining questions took me a long time to get to those, to make them simple enough and understandable enough so you could understand what bias is if you have no idea what bias is as a child. And so “Did he use faulty facts?” That’s pretty basic. “Did he pick and choose evidence to fit his own beliefs?” That’s a concept that can be very complicated. But it took me a while to boil that down, you know, to how we choose what fits our worldview, which we all do, you know, and part of this story is realizing that we all have biases. “Did his love for Europe get in the way?” You know, when we are so enamored with something, we will make anything work.

You know how, like, for an adult, it’s like when you go and you look at houses because you’re going to move and you see something wrong, but, boy, you love that house. You’ll justify it, right? We all do this all the time, buying cars, all sorts of things. We find ways to support what we really want, and that’s all. That’s what bias is. But it’s that moment here, too, when his world suddenly breaks. You know, his love of science is just… He says it’s his supreme delight. And when you research Jefferson in science, he was just in love with science. During the decade when they’re debating the Declaration of Independence, he’s taking the temperature readings outside Independence Hall in Philadelphia and recording them. They’re recorded, like, three or four times that day. The wind, you know, precipitation. I mean, who does that, right? And it was so fun to find out that a lot of these founding fathers were also obsessed with science, and they just were into it at a really hysterical level of what we would think today. But, you know, this is… This all beautiful world of science suddenly becomes a battleground.

Bianca Schulze: Yeah. Yeah. I just… I do love that question. Like, “Did he pick and choose evidence to fit his own beliefs?” And a question like that, to me, is what makes picture books not just for kids, but for adults, too, because sometimes you need such a precise question as an adult to really bring home that message for yourself as well. So I just… I loved that element.

Beth Anderson: Well, it took a long time to get there, I have to tell you.

Bianca Schulze: Well, like, well done. Well done. So, every word felt just so perfectly picked, which is why I focused on asking you about revision versus research, because it’s clear you’ve done your research, especially from the author’s note. But I think your revision shows, because the text, to me, reads so perfectly.

Bianca Schulze: And then, like you said, when you add that artwork, I mean, it is phenomenal. And, I mean, I always pick authors to come on the show whose books I love. And so sometimes I’m like, I just sound like a big book pusher, but I mean it with all of my heart. This book is so well done. Your text is amazing. And then Jeremy Holmes, like, he did woodblock print with digital pencil illustrations. And they just really bring your words to life in a way that, I mean, if you think about the science of this book, the fact that he’s got labels and little diagrams, and there’s just so much to look at. You could literally spend 2 hours on this picture book alone, just sitting there looking over the artwork. So you kind of touched on it. But I like, how do you feel that Jeremy’s artwork enhances your storytelling?

Beth Anderson: Well, I love that you noticed the format. He really supported the science, like you said, in so many ways. With the background of graph paper and just the way he drew everything and the way he arranged it all, it supports the science. I also noticed that it affects the pacing and how it takes you through the story, which is so great. And, you know, there’s always, writers always ask about illustration notes, you know, and how much does an author tell an illustrator? And I had very few in there. Most of my illustration notes came out in revision because I found that sometimes it only takes, like, one word in the text to make that illustration note unnecessary. And so those come out, and then if you can, let that illustrator just go with it and have their fun. And he researched a lot.

And one of the things that I had to take out in revision, because it was just too much, was references to the bill, the bill for the moose. The actual document is quite hysterical. What do you think about it? And it has kind of that “ew” factor that kids are drawn to. And I wasn’t able to use as much from that as I wanted to. But when I saw his art and saw that he put it in the illustration, I was just thrilled, because that is there for, you know, that second read or just, you know, perusing the pictures. He brought all this research into it, you know, with the map and extra little notes and all that. Yes, it totally… Even the way he arranged the text supports the science and builds that stronger, because the way I used, like, three phrases, he put them as sort of subheadings or something like that. So it’s just amazing.

The one thing that I know he loved the best was the illustration that has the primary source of Peter Kalm, and it shows the bear blowing up the cow, as that’s actual truth. Right. In order to kill the cow. I don’t want to spoil it for readers, but that is something to have some fun with. But the other thing that, you know, I was, I was writing a different story when the illustrations were coming through on this, and one of my questions to myself was, for the other story, is it possible to do a picture book with sort of a graphic novel type illustration style so you can show multiple things happening at once and things like that? And when I saw his art, that’s what he did.

Bianca Schulze: Yeah.

Beth Anderson: Because there’s a lot of pages that sort of have that style of, you know, I don’t know what they’re technically called. The frames of a graphic novel and some extra things in there.

Bianca Schulze: We’ll go with frames. Yeah, I like it. Did you get to have a say in picking Jeremy, or was it just your editor had the amazing idea of picking Jeremy? Like, how did that all come about?

Beth Anderson: She suggested him. Carolyn Yoder is such a master at everything about editing, but one of the… One of the great things I think she does is she knows how to pick the perfect illustrator for a text. And that’s huge. She suggested him, and I love his work. And I said, yes, that would be great.

Bianca Schulze: Yeah.

Beth Anderson: I mean, yeah. And I don’t, you know, when he has free rein to do it, it’s great. There’s not a whole lot that was changed when we were, you know, once you get sketches, you have to vet them and make sure everything in them is correct. And so, you know, there are a few changes that happen with that process. But he had done so much research, and it was clear that he did, and he enjoyed it. So that’s really special.

Bianca Schulze: Yeah. Honestly, it was a perfect pairing. All right, well, here’s the question. What do you hope young readers will take away from Thomas Jefferson’s Battle for Science? And how do you believe that this book can contribute to the development of critical thinking skills in children?

Beth Anderson: Big, big question. There’s just so much that I found in that story that it was hard to focus it, but it’s still all there in ideas. And one of them is to ask questions. I hope kids will ask questions, even when it’s hard to ask questions. It’s hard to ask questions to authorities and, you know, people with power in your lives. I hope they will see that you can do that. You know, if you go about it in the right way, you find your evidence.

Beth Anderson: You know, I also hope that they will see that we all make mistakes and we have to admit them and, you know, we move on. We learn from them. That’s another thing in there. There’s just… There’s so much about, well, for the animals and the North American thing, you know, there are consequences to misinformation. And so we kind of owe it to ourselves and others to make sure that what we’re passing along is the real deal. So there’s a lot. I mean, there’s, and I hope kids will look at those illustrations and those primary sources and have fun and, and see, you know, that we really connect to the past. It’s not that hard. Those were people just like us. I’d always tell kids they’re just like us. They’re dealing with the challenges of their setting, their time, and their place. Think about COVID. Think about all the things we deal with all the time. We are part of history. And I hope kids understand that they, too, are impacting the world. They’re part of it. It’s not just these other guys over here who are, you know, making all the difference.

Bianca Schulze: Yes. I loved that answer. Beth, that was amazing. Well, I have to ask you about your upcoming titles. You have Hiding in Plain Sight: Kate Warne and the Race to Save Abraham Lincoln and Sculpting President Lincoln: Vinnie Ream Carves Out Her Future. So obviously, more biographies or more… More stories on historical, historical figures. So, what has drawn you to these stories, and how did you research and bring these characters to life for young readers? And I know that’s kind of… I mean, that we’re talking about two new stories here, so… And I know that that could be, like, another 1-hour conversation, but…

Beth Anderson: Okay, I’ll try to put it briefly. The Kate Warne story was one that I had in my drawer that I had worked on in the beginning when I started writing. And I just was fascinated with the story of, this is the first female detective in the United States. And it’s basically the story of the Baltimore plot, which I hadn’t, I’ve never learned about. There was an assassination plot against President Lincoln when he was on his way to his inauguration from Illinois on that train trip from Springfield to Washington, DC. And the Pinkerton Detective Agency uncovered it. And she was one of the detectives, and she played a large role because she had to convince people that she had to convince Pinkerton that women could get information that others couldn’t, because she befriended the other women in Baltimore, and she sort of pumped that information out of them about what was going on with their husbands and stuff. And she found out a lot of stuff. So, anyway, they try to warn Lincoln. He doesn’t want to change his route. He doesn’t want to change his engagements. But I’m not going to spoil it.

The thing with that book is I had started that years ago, and then other books came out about it. And so I stuck it away. But then it seemed newly relevant in the last few years. And so I took it out and asked, I think I asked Carolyn Yoder if she’d be interested in it, and she said, sure, because there’s enough time between that book and any previous ones. And it has kind of a different flavor to it. So it’s this race against time. There’s a lot of tension in that one.

Bianca Schulze: I want to capitalize on something real quick, too, because sometimes I know that we have people that listen to this podcast that are wanting to be published, and I just think what you said is like, sometimes it’s not that your story isn’t worthy of being published. It’s about the timing. And I love that little story that you just told about. You had to just wait on that one, and then you found the right time for it.

Beth Anderson: Yeah. And there’s another book about Thomas Jefferson, too, and his incident with the moose. But that book is, I would say, a lower level reader. And it’s focused on measuring, actual measuring things. So you can have one idea, one event in history, and three or four different authors could see it differently. So anyway, then the other one is Vinnie Ream. She was a teenager when she sculpted the statue of President Lincoln. You can tell I’m obsessed with Lincoln, right. I grew up in Illinois a bit.

All those stories around him fascinate me. But she was still a teenager when she sculpted the statue that stands in the Capitol rotunda today. And so she was just a spunky young girl, and she… She battled all the, you know, the men who tried to keep her down, and she actually did the work. And it’s just a… I love stories of spunky people who go after their dream and just, you know, find a way.

Bianca Schulze: Yeah, that’s amazing.

Beth Anderson: Do what you need to do. Make it happen. But her story is… It starts when she’s… I think I had to switch that one. I haven’t seen the art on that one yet either. So I’m just awaiting with bated breath for the… For the art. But her story is this young girl, and she’s very tiny, too. She’s very short and very cute. And so she looks like a child to many, but she’s just this feisty young woman who blazes her trail and becomes a major sculptor.

Bianca Schulze: Yeah, that’s amazing. And, like, a sculpture of that level that people that haven’t even been to Washington, DC have seen. You know, it’s in movies and, you know, it’s amazing.

Beth Anderson: Yeah. And that was a time when women weren’t supposed to do that sort of thing where you get dirty and, you know, physical work.

Bianca Schulze: I love that you look for these little unknown, you know, tiny stories within somebody’s story. I think those are the special things because that’s what we’re all made of. We’re all made of these, you know, singular moments, like, you know, almost like a brick laying a house, you know? And I guess when we’re gone, we’re the house, but until we’re gone, we’re just another brick being put on.

Beth Anderson: That’s exactly how I saw Deborah Sampson’s story with Cloaked in Courage. It seemed like every experience she had was the building block for the next one. And that, you know, we have this series of things that make us who we are in the end and build the strengths that we need and things. It just amazes me to see that.

Bianca Schulze: Yes. Well, I want to wrap up, but I want to wrap up with this question. How do you believe stories from the past, like those you write about, can help foster this sense of connection and empowerment in young readers? And I think you’ve kind of touched on this, but I just want it to be kind of… I’ll bring home moments. So how do you think that the stories from people’s past, like those that you write about, can help foster the sense of connection and empowerment in young readers?

Beth Anderson: Well, I think that in the moment when we are faced with challenges, it seems overwhelming. But when you’re able to see someone else from the past face a challenge and what they did and how that played out and how that echoes through time, you can see it’s possible, and you can see how change happens. And so I think it’s really encouraging for kids and empowering to see that regular people do amazing things. And it may not look like we can do it right now or I can do this that’s in front of me, but maybe I can, and maybe it’ll make a difference and maybe it’ll lead to something down the road. So I think that historical perspective is really valuable. You know, it takes away all that overwhelming, because if you can create that piece in the book that shows how it was overwhelming for that person in that moment, but they made their way through it, that’s encouraging.

Bianca Schulze: I think I got goosebumps on that one. Well, Beth, I truly appreciate the message that you convey through your books, that we are all connected across time and space, and each of us does have a unique contribution to make in the world. So your dedication to uncovering the heart of a story shines through. In every book you write, you’re consistently delivering inspiring, encouraging and meaningful content to our young readers. And Thomas Jefferson’s Battle for Science: Bias, Truth, and a Mighty Moose is such a prime example of your ability to bring lesser-known historical events to life and promoting critical thinking and scientific inquiry in this one.

Bianca Schulze: So I think this is a book that’s going to captivate and educate readers of all ages, grown-ups included, sparking curiosity and encouraging them to question the world around them. So thank you for joining us on the show today and for sharing your insights into the writing process and the importance of connecting with readers through storytelling. Your passion for creating books that widen children’s worlds and gets them thinking is so admirable, and I have no doubt that all of your upcoming titles will continue to do just that. So thank you, Beth, for coming on the show.

Beth Anderson: Thank you so much for having me. It’s been fun.

About the Book

Publisher’s Book Summary: Thomas Jefferson is one of the most famous founding fathers, but did you know that his mind was always on science? This STEM/STEAM picture book tells how Jefferson’s scientific thinking and method battled against faulty facts and bias to prove that his new nation was just as good as any in the Old World.

Young Thomas Jefferson loved to measure the natural world: plants and animals, mountains and streams, crops and weather. With a notepad in his pocket, he constantly examined, experimented, and explored. He dreamed of making great discoveries like the well-known scientific author, Count Georges-Louis Leclerc de Buffon.

But when Buffon published an encyclopedia of the natural world, Jefferson was furious! According to the French count, America was cold and swampy, and filled with small and boring animals, nothing like the majestic creatures of the OId World. Jefferson knew Buffon had never even been to America. Where had Buffon gotten his information? Had he cherry-picked the facts to suit his arguments? Was he biased in favor of Europe?

Buy the Book

Show Notes

Beth Anderson is the author of Revolutionary Prudence Wright: Leading the Minute Women in the Fight for Independence, and Tad Lincoln’s Restless Wriggle: Pandemonium and Patience in the President’s House. Her title, Lizzie Demands a Seat, won the Bank Street Flora Stieglitz Straus Award and the Sugarman Children’s Biography Honor Award, and was a JLG selection.

Jeremy Holmes is an award-winning picture book illustrator. His debut book, There Was an Old Lady Who Swallowed a Fly won the prestigious BolognaRagazzi Opera Prima Award. He also assisted with the creation of the puppets for the Emmy-nominated show Helpsters on PBS.

Resources:

Visit Beth Anderson online: https://bethandersonwriter.com/.

Thank you for listening to the Growing Readers Podcast episode Mining for the Heart of History: Beth Anderson on ‘Thomas Jefferson and the Battle for Science’. For the latest episodes from The Growing Readers Podcast, Subscribe or Follow Now.