A podcast interview presented in partnership with Richard Wagner on The Growing Readers Podcast, a production of The Children’s Book Review.
In this episode of The Growing Readers Podcast, we embark on a delightful journey behind the scenes of a heartwarming picture book, Needles, the Forgotten Christmas Tree.
Richard Wagner, the creative mind who brought this enchanting story to life, unravels the process of crafting this magical narrative, exploring the themes of perseverance and discovering beauty in the most unexpected places. Richard grew up in Southern California. When he was fourteen years old, a business friend of his father’s had a small Christmas tree delivered as a thank-you. Their family already had a large tree decorated in the house. Not being able to find anyone who needed a tree, that small Christmas tree stood outside by itself for the remainder of the Christmas holiday.
Needles, the Forgotten Christmas Tree is a tribute to that little tree and what might have been, but more importantly, to all the beauty, goodness, and hope that Christmas brings to us all. Mr. Wagner continues to reside in Southern California with his wife and two children.
Discussion Topics:
Richard Wagner talks about:
- Ever wondered about the daily practices that fuel creativity? Richard Wagner shares part of his daily routine, and you won’t believe the key to success – daily heart-to-hearts with the spouse! Get the scoop on this surprising secret.
- Get ready for a journey through the pages of a life-long love affair with books! From childhood favorites to adult literary adventures, discover how reading shaped Richard’s world.
- Curious about the nitty-gritty of writing a picture book? Richard spills the beans on parts of the process – including collaborating with an illustrator.
- Uncover the enchanting origins of Needles, the Forgotten Christmas Tree! Richard shares the spark that ignited this festive tale.
- Take a deep dive into the evolution of the story. Richard unravels the threads of perseverance and unexpected beauty woven into the narrative, offering a behind-the-scenes look into the book’s profound themes.
- What life lessons does Richard hope young readers will carry from Needles? Find out as he reflects on the inspiration behind the story and the impact it could have on impressionable minds.
- Stick around as Richard drops a hint about future literary adventures. Could there be more books in the pipeline?
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Transcription:
Bianca Schulze
Hello, Richard. Welcome to The Growing Readers Podcast.
Richard Wagner
Thanks Bianca. Glad to be here.
Bianca Schulze
Yeah. Well, I’m so happy to talk to you about your picture book, Needles, the Forgotten Christmas Tree. But before we do, I thought it would be fun to learn a little bit about what makes you tick. And since your book is a holiday story, I would love to start by finding out what one of your favorite holiday traditions is.
Richard Wagner
Oh, gosh. We have several. We like to on Christmas Eve, we go to my sister’s house for dinner every year, and it’s a big family gathering. And then the next morning, we just have our little thing as a family. There’s four of us. I have two children. They’re older now. They’re just out of college. And what we do is we get up in the morning, and we put Christmas carols on the stereo, and my wife makes quiche and cinnamon rolls. I pour champagne, and then we go out, and we sit, and we have a process where we all sit in the same place every year, and we all start opening presents one at a time. If it takes 1 hour, great. If it takes 4 hours, great. We don’t care.
But it’s really a family setting where all four of us are there, and it’s very intimate. It’s a lot of fun, and we talk a lot, and it’s just a huge tradition for us. And I know that the kids look forward to it every year.
Bianca Schulze
I love that. When you said the cinnamon rolls, I could automatically smell them fresh out of the oven.
Richard Wagner
If we don’t have cinnamon rolls, then we’d have to go out and find some that morning.
Bianca Schulze
Yes. I love it. Well, beyond the cinnamon rolls, do you have a favorite holiday food?
Richard Wagner
Well, yeah, I have to be honest. It’s pumpkin pie. That’s me there.
Bianca Schulze
Do you watch a holiday movie?
Richard Wagner
We watch every year—we watch The Bishop’s Wife with Carrie Grant, David Niven, and Loretta Young. I don’t know if you know that movie.
Bianca Schulze
I don’t. I don’t know that movie.
Richard Wagner
It’s a wonderful movie. It centers around Christmas, but it’s just a delightful movie. It was made in, I think, 1947, and it’s funny. Terry Grant is awesome in it. It’s funny, but it has some really good messages. And even our kids like it. They love watching it.
Bianca Schulze
Well, and that’s the trick, isn’t it? Finding a movie that everybody agrees upon and that has to become the favorite.
Richard Wagner
Oh, yeah.
Bianca Schulze
So you mentioned Christmas carols on Christmas morning. Do you have a favorite Christmas Carol?
Richard Wagner
I do, actually. Whenever I’m asked if, like, a group of singers what they want to hear, it’s Good King Wenceslas. I don’t know why I like it. I just do.
Bianca Schulze
Yeah. You know what? I like that one, too. I haven’t heard that one for a while, but I like it. All right. And then I have to ask, besides Needles, the Forgotten Christmas Tree, is there a nostalgic Christmas story or holiday book that you have read or read often each year?
Richard Wagner
Oh, gosh. I don’t know that we do it anymore, but I’ll be honest. Growing up, as the kids grew up, and even we did this when I was a child, but when the kids were young every year, we all sat down in the living room on the sofa, and we read,
Bianca Schulze
Was it T’was the Night Before Christmas?
Richard Wagner
T’was the Night Before Christmas. Thank you.
Bianca Schulze
Yes. That happens to me often. My mind blanks at the most unusual spots. But it came to me because that’s the one we read every year on Christmas.
Richard Wagner
Every year, we sit, and we read it. And the kids used to just love it.
Bianca Schulze
Yes. All right. Well, now, here’s a non-holiday-specific question. What is one thing that you do in your day-to-day practices that you think would either be the most surprising or the most relatable to listeners?
Richard Wagner
Well, it’s important to me that I sit and talk to my wife every day, and we have time where we just talk. We spend time usually in the morning talking. In fact, sometimes we’ll talk for two or 3 hours, and it just kind of gets away from us about all kinds of things: our kids, places we were thinking about, moving trips we want to take, politics, economics. I’ll read an article in the paper tour that I’m looking at. Just things like that.
But we spend a lot of time talking, especially in the morning and then a lot of times in the evening. And I think that it’s important that you’re able to sit and talk and have communication like that. My parents did that. My dad would come home from work at night, and they would sit in the kitchen and just talk for a couple of hours, and it was kind of interesting.
Bianca Schulze
Yeah. I love that. When you do find that time to just sit and be and stay connected and on the same page, it’s so important. Well, to be a writer, they say that you must be a reader first. So, I’m curious if there was a pivotal moment in your life in which you considered yourself a reader.
Richard Wagner
Yeah, well, my parents had a lot of books in the house growing up, and as a kid, they had a lot of children’s books that we read or young people’s books. And as I got further into school, like getting into the, I would say the third, fourth, and fifth grade, I read a lot of books that— We had book fairs at our elementary school, and we go over there, and I’d get books. My favorite book growing up was, we bought this book at that book fair about Daniel Boone. I must have read that thing a hundred times.
And then we spent a lot of time down at the library. Starting in the first grade, they take you to the library, and you learn how to utilize the library. And we used to go down there all the time because it was very close to our house. I spent hours in that library checking out books. I’d check four or five books out and bring them home.
And I remember this one time, it was a Saturday; I think it was really hot out. We lived in Pasadena, California, at the time, and it was probably 100-something degrees out, and the air conditioning was on. It was cool in the house. And I was kind of bored. And my dad had this huge library of Heritage Club books that he bought over decades. And I went up to it, and I was looking at it, and I saw this book on Tom Sawyer, and I had seen the movie, Tom Sawyer. So, I pulled the book out, and I sat down, and I literally read it in one day, and I so enjoyed it. The next book I pulled out was Call of the Wild, and I became a real Jack London fan. And it kind of went from there. And I just started going through his library, reading these books over years and years.
And then, I got into literature classes in high school, and I had a really good teacher. I took her for four different classes in high school because she was so good. And I just did a ton of reading and learned how to write really well. And then, in college, I took literature classes, and I really never read a book I didn’t like, except one. I really struggled with Kurt Vonnegut, but otherwise, I really never read a book that I really didn’t like.
Bianca Schulze
That’s a pretty good run to read so much and really not find one that you really didn’t love. That’s impressive.
Richard Wagner
Well, and maybe I was good at choosing. I don’t know, but I really enjoyed it. And then in my later life here, I’m really into history books. I like to read a lot of history. I have a huge library.
Bianca Schulze
That’s awesome. Are your kids big readers?
Richard Wagner
My daughter is voracious. We bought her a set of, I think, when she was in late elementary school or junior high school, of all the classics. But they were geared down just a little bit for younger minds, like, around her age. So, it wasn’t the full-blown classics. And I’m talking about classics like maybe a book like Frankenstein or something like that, or Treasure Island, things like that. And there must have been 20 of them, and she read every single one of them. She would have four or five books on her nightstand next to her bed, and she’d be reading four or five books at one time. And she did this for many years. So she went to college, and lo and behold, she was an English major.
Bianca Schulze
There you go.
Richard Wagner
So, she still writes and likes to write and read, and she still has tons of books in her room that she reads. She’s just out of college, so she’s living with us till she can afford to move out. But my son was not as voracious of a reader. He struggled a little bit, not struggling to read. It just wasn’t something that he really liked to do. He was a big sports kid, but as he got into high school later in high school, he became a real student-athlete and ended up at Cornell University. So, he did well, too.
Bianca Schulze
That’s great. Well, since Needles is your first picture book, but you’ve written articles and op-eds for newspapers and other periodicals, including the Wall Street Journal. So, I’m curious how you found the process of writing a picture book compared to your other writing experiences.
Richard Wagner
I guess when I started writing this, it didn’t start out with the thought that it was a picture book in my mind. It was a story that I was hoping we could apply pictures to later, and I wanted to write it for children, so it’s a lot different than writing in the Wall Street Journal, that’s for sure. I had to keep in mind who might be reading this and try not to use big words and complicated sentences, which I think I got there pretty well. Writing the book was not difficult.
Richard Wagner
The first draft of the story, frankly, after sitting around over 40 to 50 years of thinking about it, took me about two to 3 hours. That was about it. Now, there were many iterations of changes after that where I refined it and thought about it and everything, but the initial gist of the story only took me two or 3 hours. The harder part was finding a publisher. And then, I’m going to be honest: the hardest part of the whole process was finding an illustrator who could do what I sort of pictured in my mind that I wanted.
Bianca Schulze
Well, I’m glad that you mentioned the illustrator, Sydney Krueger.
Richard Wagner
I probably went through looking at 20 to 25 illustrators, and they would all do little sketches and things like that. And I had to pay some of them to do it, but I really wanted to find the right one. And Sydney just sort of— I just kind of liked the way she drew. And it was more in line with what I wanted. I wanted something that looked really nice. I didn’t want it to be cartoonish. And if you notice, Needles doesn’t have a face. Almost every illustrator put a face on the tree. And I kept telling them, no, I don’t want faces. I want you to take the tree. And when it’s happy, the branches are up. When it’s sad, the branches are down. Try to create some personality in a tree if you can. And she got there, and the rest of her drawings were beautiful. We went through a few iterations, and then she was pregnant, and then she had to have her baby, and I had to wait six months.
Bianca Schulze
Life happens.
Richard Wagner
Yeah, I know it. That’s exactly right. So, anyway, that’s kind of what happened with Sydney. I’ve never met her, but I love the way she draws.
Bianca Schulze
Yeah, me too. And I like that, too, that it’s very realistic. But she just brings this beautiful glow and warmth to the pages with her artwork. And I don’t know if you know exactly what she did, but it almost seems as though she painted on canvas because the illustrations have this just lovely texture to them. I love the warmth and the glow and the richness and the texture that she has added to the pages.
Richard Wagner
Yeah, it’s beautiful.
Bianca Schulze
Yeah.
Richard Wagner
And it looks exactly how I pictured it for the most part.
Bianca Schulze
Yeah. That’s so great when you get that synergy between what you envision and what the illustrator puts forward. It’s so nice when it works out like that. Well, I think the reason why your story obviously came out so easily was because you did sit on this story for quite a while. So, do you want to share how this story actually came about? Because I think this is a story that you’ve had since you were 14 years old if I’m correct.
Richard Wagner
Yeah. There was a business associate of my fathers who wanted to do something nice for him, and he had a Christmas tree lot as one of his businesses. And so, one day, he showed up, and he delivered this little Christmas tree. It wasn’t a huge one, but it was just a little tree and a little scraggly, but it was okay. The problem was we already had a Christmas tree all decorated in the living room, and we didn’t know what to do with the tree. We asked some neighbors if they needed a tree. We called some friends. Nobody needed a tree. And so that little Christmas tree sat outside on the side of the house for the rest of the Christmas holidays.
And I don’t know why, Bianca, but somehow, I just really felt sorry for that tree. And for the last 40 to 50 years, I felt sorry for that tree, and I never forgot it. It’s just really weird. I never forgot it. And so over the years, I thought, I’d really like to write a story about that tree in remembrance of that tree and write something about, well, what might have been.
Richard Wagner
And as you said earlier, life gets in the way. You know, you, you end up getting into business, you, you have a family, you get into sports, kids go to college. I mean, all these things happen. And then finally, one day, while the kids were in college, I guess I had more time, and I sat down, and I just did it. I said, I’m just going to do it, and I did it.
Bianca Schulze
Yes, well, you did do it, and you basically gave this tree a beautiful ending, I think the ending that your 14-year-old self-wished that it had. So normally, I would say, let’s not do any spoilers, but I feel like maybe you could share a little bit of the summary, and it probably will be a little bit of a spoiler, but do you want to share kind of what happens with the.
Richard Wagner
Well, yeah. The whole thing about Emily, who is a very young girl, wasn’t something that was preconceived as I was writing the story. It honestly just sort of happened. And as I was writing it, I thought it would be perfect for Needles. Who’s this scraggly Christmas tree? Nobody wants, nobody likes, isn’t a very good-looking tree, essentially a challenged, handicapped tree. And here’s all of a sudden this little girl who needs a tree, and it’s not something that was preconceived, and the whole story went through to the end where little Emily and the tree come together, and it was all just sort of staring me in the face. All of a sudden, I went, oh, gee, I actually have a learning experience here.
And I had kind of been going through the story about Needles not giving up. But at the end of the story, I have this thing just staring me in the face going, wow, I have really kind of a neat ending here where I have the ability to tie this all together. And again, that wasn’t preconceived. It just all of a sudden happened, and I was able to tie it all together at the end, where you have this little tree that’s been decorated, and he’s so proud, and you have little Emily, who wasn’t going to have a tree, but now she has a tree, and they’re sitting there looking at each other, and with that, they’re going to enjoy the glory of Christmas together.
Bianca Schulze
Yes.
Richard Wagner
And that’s how I was able to bring that all together.
Bianca Schulze
And I feel like every true holiday Christmas story needs that Christmas miracle. And I love that this is a Christmas miracle that sort of takes place that really, it really could happen in real life, like this family that was in need of a Christmas tree to lift the spirits of their daughter, Emily. And they happen upon this tree that’s on the side of the road that wants nothing more than to bring joy to a family by glowing and being decorated. And they come together, and it turned out beautifully. I wonder if you’d be willing to read a little snippet. Do you have a copy handy?
Richard Wagner
I have a little paragraph here that I could read. It’s towards the end of the book.
Bianca Schulze
That would be wonderful.
Richard Wagner
Okay:
Emily sat next to her mom and looked at Needles with a big smile. Needles looked back at her, looking tall and strong. In that moment, a little girl and a small tree had their hopes fulfilled. Each had brought to the other the happiness, delight, beauty, and warmth of sharing all that they had. And with that, they would share the glory of Christmas.
Bianca Schulze
That was a great example of just what the book brings. So, on that note, what do you hope that kids and families learn from reading Needles, the Forgotten Christmas Tree?
Richard Wagner
The number one message in the book is we all have to persevere through adversity or adversities in life. And you have a situation here where you have a little tree that’s struggling to be a Christmas tree, and you have a little girl who is struggling in life as well. I believe that a children’s book should constitute at least some life lessons and be inspiring. I think the teachable lessons in this story deal with the hopes and dreams, the determination in the face of great odds, and the virtue of never giving up. And in addition, the idea that what one person or group may not find appealing, another person may find beautiful.
Bianca Schulze
Exactly. Well, do you think there’s going to be any more books for children by Richard Wagner? Are we going to see more?
Richard Wagner
You know, everybody asked me that, and I kind of have been going along trying to go through this process since this is my first book and just kind of learn how you do all of this. How do you market a book? That kind of thing. The first thing everybody asked me was, well, what’s Needles going to do next? And I kind of have to scratch my head. Okay, where do you go with a Christmas tree?
I actually like to write, and so I’ve been kind of thinking about different ideas that I have and what I might want to do. Nothing that I’m really able to talk about, but I would like to do this again. Yes.
Bianca Schulze
That’s wonderful. Well, I hope you do, Richard, because Needles, the Forgotten Christmas Tree, is just such a beautiful, heart-filling story. And I know you can do it again. So, thank you so much for being on the show today to share your lovely, lovely story. And I just want to end our conversation with wishing you a very happy upcoming holiday season.
Richard Wagner
Bianca, thank you so much for having me. I really enjoy this. Love talking to you, and hopefully, sometime, we can do this again. And I wish you the best through the holidays as well.
Bianca Schulze
Thank you, Richard.
About the Book
Needles, the Forgotten Christmas Tree
Written by Richard Wagner
Illustrated by Sydni Kruger
Ages 3+ | 38 Pages
Publisher: Mascot Kids | ISBN-13: 9781645437086
Publisher’s Book Summary: The world is not always a perfect place. Needles, a scraggly little tree, must endure criticism, laughter, and setbacks to realize his goal of becoming a beautiful Christmas tree.
This is a story of dreams, desires, hope, determination, and never giving up. It also offers the observation that what others think is beautiful may not really matter. Beauty is truly in the eyes of the beholder and paired with the spirit of Christmas, maybe we can make the world just a little more perfect!
Buy the Book
Show Notes
Resources:
For more information, visit https://needlesthechristmastree.com.
Music Credits:
- Paired with the book synopsis is Family Tree by Jahzzar, licensed under an Attribution-ShareAlike License.
- The transition sound is Christmas Ident – FMA Podcast Suggestion by Serge Quadrado, licensed under an Attribution-ShareAlike 4.0 International License.
Thank you for listening to the Growing Readers Podcast episode: Richard Wagner Talks About Needles, the Forgotten Christmas Tree. For the latest episodes from The Growing Readers Podcast, Subscribe or Follow Now.
